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[Guide] Archer T4 Pve Skill Build - Sniper, Artillery, Tempest, Windwalker


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#1 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:50 AM

Adapted from Duowan for Level 50 Cap
Original Link here: http://bbs.duowan.co...993714-1-1.html

This guide is outdated for Bowmasters. Please refer to the new guide here:
http://forum.cherryc...vp-skill-build/

This guide will be divided into three sections:

1) Skill Description and the theory behind efficient SP distribution
2) Bowmaster Skill Tree PVE T4 build 3) Acrobat Skill Tree PVE T4 build For a long time I was stuck on the research of efficient SP distribution, sometimes contradicting my own opinions. I finally came to the conclusion that there is no one theory that can consider all the possible factors.

For instance, comparing burst damage vs continuous dps, the skill board damage, order of skill usage and skill CD have to be taken into consideration.
My research focus will be based on skill complementarities and nature of the skills.

Some definitions before I begin:

Skill Board Damage A
Refers to the skill damage shown in the skill description
E.g. Twinshot (lvl 1) – 67%+2
Note that the skill board damage does not necessarily reflect the total damage output.
Refer to Figures 1a and 1b below.

Posted Image
Figure 1a: Bowmaster Skill Board Damage and Description

Posted Image
Figure 1b: Acrobat Skill Board Damage and Description

Skill CD - B
Refers to the time taken for the skill to be usable again (cooldown time)

Skill Casting Time - C
Time between the pressing down the skill button to the start of CD countdown

Skill Damage Delay - D
Delay between skill casting and damage
e.g. Explosive Arrow when casted needs a few secs before exploding

Skill SP Cost - S
Comparatively more complicated to calculate, need to consider prerequisite skill and the board damage increment for each skill level increase.

An efficient SP build considers mainly the Skill Board Damage A and Skill CD B, with some elements of skill cast time C. SP cost S is the least important factor to be considered.

Edited by Azarael, 04 March 2013 - 09:11 AM.


#2 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

A ranking of BM skills when maxed at lvl 50 Cap, in the order of Skill Board Damage – does not consider phy and mag att values (FYI only)

Posted Image

Sniper PVE Skill Build

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Archer
Too much SP, added 1 to multishot.

BM
Scope Arrow and Swiftshot easily exceed 1k Skill Board Damage, so max these skills if possible.

On my way to work I was thinking about the total skill board damage for arrow rain is still pretty good for a sniper. But when I reached home to check the current patch data, tracking arrows (792%+11216) still wins by a great margin, in terms of CD and damage.

You'll benefit more maxing tracking arrows than maxing arrow shower, but once u max tracking arrows there will not be enough points for arrow shower. I've tried two other skill builds with arrow shower, but having arrow shower actually reduces overall damage output, and giving up arrow shower affords more flexibility to an efficient SP build.
Ankle Shot damage is still disappointingly low, use it only to restrict movement.

Damage growth for Charged Shot EX is still too low, even with EX in place, when maxed is a pathetic 510%+7834, almost comparable to lvl 1 tracking arrows

Sniper
Lvl 1 Ambush Point is sufficient, low damage.

Skill Ring: Aerial Chain Shot
Skill Plate: Aerial Chain Shot, Charged Shot, Swift Shot




Edited by Azarael, 04 September 2012 - 08:48 AM.


#3 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

Artillery Skill Build

Posted Image

Archer: I've been struggling with two different builds, either maxing Twinshot, or a combination of lvl 16 Twinshot and lvl 6 Magic Arrow. Although the small explosion from Magic Arrow has some flinching effect, I've still decided to max Twinshot due to the long skill damage delay for magic arrow. 4 SP extra so I added to lvl 1 Multishot and lvl 1 Pinwheel. Feel free to distribute them as you like. Somehow during the test Pinwheel seems to be more useful? Larger AOE? Or was it my imagination?

BM: Tried to go pure magic build (maxed magical BM skill tree) but most of the time I was waiting for skills to CD, so I decided to add Ankle Shot as well to complement the build.

Artillery: lvl 1 for all skills. Nuff said.

Scope Arrow EX, most BM don't understand why this skill has become so lousy, so I'll take this opportunity to explain.
When the main arrow of Scope Arrow contacts the enemy, it'll split into 6 more arrows, giving a stable damage of 7A arrows. With EX, once the main arrow contacts the enemy there will be a small explosion, two scenarios:

Scenario 1: Enemy moves position due to the explosion, but the arrow only splits 0.5 secs after contact, so part of the arrows will be lost.
Scenario 2: Enemy size is small, the arrow splits 0.5 secs later behind the enemy, so all the arrows are lost!!

Total Board Damage: Scope Arrow EX 1489%+22850 > Scope Arrow 1145%+17577
Maxed Scope Arrow Board Damage (lvl 12): 327%+5022

The skill description says additional 30% damage actually means 327% * 30% + 5022 * 30%, which is only 8% of the Total Board Damage for Scope Arrow.
It definitely isn't going to be the wonderful 30% damage, in order to increase damage by 8% are you really willing to sacrifice the 1162%+17828???

And you need to spend 3 SP???
What???
You think it looks cool???

Very well, young one, give us a shot of that beautiful EX skill, and the universe is yours!!!

*Aza's note: Sometimes I don't understand Chinese humour… (sorry)

Skill Ring: Aerial Chain Shot, Twin Shot
Skill Plate: Same as above.




Edited by Azarael, 04 September 2012 - 08:50 AM.


#4 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

A ranking of Acro skills when maxed at lvl 50 Cap, in the order of Skill Board Damage – does not consider phy and mag att values (FYI only)

Posted Image

Tempest PVE Skill Build

Posted Image

Archer
Max Multishot because of its low SP cost. Most of the time you'll be close range, so multishot damage is consistently high. Attuned mind at lvl 2 may seem risky, especially before reaching lvl 50. Once you are fully geared with lvl 50 equip, MP usage is not much of a problem. You can even consider lowering it to lvl 1. Extra 3 SP so I spent it on Magic Arrow.  Feel free to redistribute it as you like.

Acrobat
So the question on everyone's mind is, would sacrificing Blooming Kick and Cyclone Kick pose a problem for Tempest? Since T3 I have been analysing the usage of Blooming Kick. When clearing dungeon maps, Blooming Kick is only good for triggering Somersault Dance. Also, Blooming Kick must land perfectly on Boss Monster and break their superarmour before Somersault Dance can be chained. It is precisely this reason why I chose to give up Blooming Kick. Add that to the 11 SP required for 100% Stun Rate and the abysmally low Board Damage of 277%+3355 when maxed makes this a lousy skill to take.

The best part of Cyclone Kick is the reduced CD to 20 secs, but the slow casting time still sucks. Most of the time CK can hit only partially before you're forced to cancel the skill. What Tempest need the most is safe DPS, since we're giving up Blooming Kick, might as well give up CK.

Although lvl 1 CK 820%+1537 seems attractive, it needs 6 SP to unlock, which can be better spent elsewhere. Lvl 1 BK is useful for small I-frame. Originally I wanted to drop Eagle Dive cos of its pathetic damage, but ED still helps to connect combos and land safely when airborne.

Tempest
Nothing much to say, a reminder that Evasion can only be used when on the ground.

Skill Ring: Air Pounce, Air Pounce
Skill Plate: CD, Air Pounce DMG, Furious Winds CD/DMG, Somersault DMG


Edited by Azarael, 21 August 2012 - 04:19 PM.


#5 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:51 AM

Windwalker PVE Skill Build

Posted Image

Archer: Similar build to Tempest.

Acrobat: Somersault dance was raised high considering the chain combo with Blooming Kick. Lvl 1 Spirit Shot is sufficient, although some people choose to max this skill. Calculations show that maxing it needs quite a bit of SP, and even with Showtime+Spiral Kick+Spirit Shot combo, the damage increment is not significant. Air Pounce is still maxed so that it can be use it interchangeably with Spiral Kick depending on the situation. Based on this build Windwalkers can easily out-DPS Tempests, but lvl 1 Furious Winds was added to help finish off remaining mobs.

Windwalker: Nothing much too add. Rising storm damage is impressive, even better at DPS than cyclone kick.

Edited by Azarael, 23 August 2012 - 04:15 PM.


#6 cuddle44

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:57 AM

Support for meanie Aza... (:[) (:[)

#7 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:01 AM

View Postcuddle44, on 21 August 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Support for meanie Aza... (:[) (:[)
just a prank....sorrryyyyy (:[) (:[)

#8 cuddle44

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:08 AM

View PostAzarael, on 21 August 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

just a prank....sorrryyyyy (:[) (:[)
Bad prank.. you gave me a shock (:[) (sob)

#9 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:28 AM

View Postcuddle44, on 21 August 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Bad prank.. you gave me a shock (:[) (sob)
*hugs* don't cry (:[)

Edited by Azarael, 21 August 2012 - 11:31 AM.


#10 Sp3llArr0w

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:25 PM

(clap)


P.S What's with the " (:[) "s ? lol

#11 aoibara

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

+1 (:])  

I'm hoping to see Artillery and WW soon. Nice guide.

EDIT: I got ninja'd. I'll read the artillery build now. xD

Edited by aoibara, 21 August 2012 - 02:14 PM.


#12 _pReciS_

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

Lol I saw before the chinese version, and you just translate the whole guide directly from duowan (:D)
But still thanks for the translate and you typed so many words (clap)

#13 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 03:42 PM

View Post_pReciS_, on 21 August 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Lol I saw before the chinese version, and you just translate the whole guide directly from duowan %20class=)' />
But still thanks for the translate and you typed so many words (clap)

yup you're welcome (:])

Edited by Azarael, 27 September 2012 - 07:28 PM.


#14 Nretep

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:19 PM

You refer A as board damage and even list the coefficient of skills. Yet in the formula you only say you use A.
If you say "A = (x% + y)" and a skill has [250% + 10 000] do you calc it as [A = 10 250] ? That'd equal having 100 Atk/Matk.

You say C is the cast animation. But afair the skill CD already applies when you press the button, there's no delay of the CD trigger. C is the time your char is "busy" and cannot do other things.

Dividing through the SP cost is pretty harsh. It doesn't reflect the total damage or burst damage or damage over time, just damage over various time versus SP cost. And since every skill costs the same with T4, you're just dividing damage versus skilllevel.

Personally, I prefer chaoses version. Instead of trying to combine all things, make lists for each attribute. I also did this with my ForceUser calculator.

#15 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:46 PM

okay so my wall of text gave you a wrong idea huh..

View PostNretep, on 21 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

If you say "A = (x% + y)" and a skill has [250% + 10 000] do you calc it as [A = 10 250] ? That'd equal having 100 Atk/Matk.

its not calculated that way actually.
A = (x%+y)

Say your skill has a multiplier of 2 (Total = 2A damage)
Total = 2A = (2x%) + (2y)
let x=20 and y =10000
If you have 1000 att, it'll be 1000*2*20% + 2*10000 = 20000+400 =20400

View PostNretep, on 21 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

You say C is the cast animation. But afair the skill CD already applies when you press the button, there's no delay of the CD trigger. C is the time your char is "busy" and cannot do other things.

C is the time taken to cast a skill. e.g. Arrow Rain takes much longer to cast compared to Twinshot
B+C is referred to as the actual CD time. You can call it "pseudo" CD cos it doesn't really exist.
B+C is used in consideration of burst damage versus continuous dps

View PostNretep, on 21 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Dividing through the SP cost is pretty harsh. It doesn't reflect the total damage or burst damage or damage over time, just damage over various time versus SP cost. And since every skill costs the same with T4, you're just dividing damage versus skilllevel.

I mentioned in the guide somewhere that SP cost is the least important factor to be considered. The formula itself is meant to be a guide when comparing between skills.

View PostNretep, on 21 August 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Personally, I prefer chaoses version. Instead of trying to combine all things, make lists for each attribute. I also did this with my ForceUser calculator.

Go right ahead (:])

Edited by Azarael, 21 August 2012 - 05:58 PM.


#16 Nretep

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:28 PM

View PostAzarael, on 21 August 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

its not calculated that way actually.
A = (x%+y)

Say your skill has a multiplier of 2 (Total = 2A damage)
Total = 2A = (2x%) + (2y)
let x=20 and y =10000
If you have 1000 att, it'll be 1000*2*20% + 2*10000 = 20000+400 =20400
I know who the actual damage is calced, but how did YOU calc it?

First you write
Formula: [A/(B+C+D)]/S
but declare A as (x% +y)

There's no coefficient (in your example Coeff=2). There's no explanation how you convert "20% + 10 000" into a single number, but you somehow did it.

View PostAzarael, on 21 August 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

C is the time taken to cast a skill. e.g. Arrow Rain takes much longer to cast compared to Twinshot
B+C is referred to as the actual CD time. You can call it "pseudo" CD cos it doesn't really exist.
B+C is used in consideration of burst damage versus continuous dps
As I said before, this is wrong. The CD triggers upon activation of the skill, not after the animation. Otherwise cancelling the skill wouldn't trigger the CD.

Example:
ArrowShower: 5s animation; 15s CD (drawing example); 3s damage delay
KeyPressed: |
DmgDelay:   |------|
Animation:  |----------|
CoolDown:   |------------------------------|
They all start immidiatly after pressing. Adding them does not give any useful result.

View PostAzarael, on 21 August 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

I mentioned in the guide somewhere that SP cost is the least important factor to be considered. The formula itself is meant to be a guide when comparing between skills.
you said SP cost is the lest important, yeah. But in the formula it's one of the most influencing one, why? Your formula compares SP efficiency of skills, not skilldamage-/-time-efficiency.

#17 Azarael

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:35 PM

View PostNretep, on 21 August 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

I know who the actual damage is calced, but how did YOU calc it?

First you write
Formula: [A/(B+C+D)]/S
but declare A as (x% +y)

There's no coefficient (in your example Coeff=2). There's no explanation how you convert "20% + 10 000" into a single number, but you somehow did it.

As I said before, this is wrong. The CD triggers upon activation of the skill, not after the animation. Otherwise cancelling the skill wouldn't trigger the CD.

Example:
ArrowShower: 5s animation; 15s CD (drawing example); 3s damage delay
KeyPressed: |
DmgDelay: |------|
Animation: |----------|
CoolDown: |------------------------------|
They all start immidiatly after pressing. Adding them does not give any useful result.

you said SP cost is the lest important, yeah. But in the formula it's one of the most influencing one, why? Your formula compares SP efficiency of skills, not skilldamage-/-time-efficiency.

I was about to reply your message, but then, why bother?
It seems whatever answer I give you will not satisfy you (:])

If you are already have an opinion of your own, its good
by all means share with us, so we may learn from it

This is a guide based on something I read on Duowan
I found it useful and informative, so I decided to translate it for the benefit of those who cannot read Chinese
I was hoping it would help those who are undecided on T4 skill build
Is that really such a wrong thing to do? (tense)

I won't be replying to this thread any further. Any questions you have regarding this guide, go to the main site and ask the author.

Edited by Azarael, 21 August 2012 - 07:42 PM.


#18 Glacie

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:44 PM

Hmm... nice guide.

Although personally I wouldn't follow it too closely because its a really really hardcore straight up Pure DPS build. (missing out on other useful skills or pretty looking skills lol)

I find it interesting that for sniper, you seem to be learning more towards magic skills for practicality's sake.

Personally, I have a sniper that would lean towards physical and artillery that is towards magical. So I wouldn't have the headache of having to calibrate 1 perfect build to suit myself (:])

Here are my 2 questions (since I am too lazy to do any real calculations)
  • For sniper, is arrow shower and seige stance really really that crappy? Like how far is the margin of dps difference?

  • I've heard that magical breeze + aerial chain shot still loses to sniper's due to skill percentage scaling (which I find logical). So I'm actually contemplating to leave ACS at level 1 for artillery instead. Mind advising if should I / should not max ACS?

    thanks~

Edited by Glacie, 21 August 2012 - 07:45 PM.


#19 _pReciS_

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:07 AM

View PostGlacie, on 21 August 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:


Hmm... nice guide.

Although personally I wouldn't follow it too closely because its a really really hardcore straight up Pure DPS build. (missing out on other useful skills or pretty looking skills lol)

I find it interesting that for sniper, you seem to be learning more towards magic skills for practicality's sake.

Personally, I have a sniper that would lean towards physical and artillery that is towards magical. So I wouldn't have the headache of having to calibrate 1 perfect build to suit myself (:])

Here are my 2 questions (since I am too lazy to do any real calculations)
  • For sniper, is arrow shower and seige stance really really that crappy? Like how far is the margin of dps difference?

  • I've heard that magical breeze + aerial chain shot still loses to sniper's due to skill percentage scaling (which I find logical). So I'm actually contemplating to leave ACS at level 1 for artillery instead. Mind advising if should I / should not max ACS?

    thanks~
arrow shower have almost the same damage with aerial chain shot but a longer cooldown.... but if your physical attack is 1.8x higher than your magical attack than you can max AS, if not max magical skills will have better damage

the total damage for siege stance is not bad but you need to stand there for 15s, it is extremely dangerous in nest. so unless the skill can be redo into a better version, if not siege stance is useless

ACS should be maxed no matter sniper or artillery, although may not be as painful as sniper but ACS is still the main DPS skill and have the 2nd highest total damage (1st is ulti)

#20 fourrier

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:04 AM

View PostAzarael, on 21 August 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

I was about to reply your message, but then, why bother?
It seems whatever answer I give you will not satisfy you (:])

If you are already have an opinion of your own, its good
by all means share with us, so we may learn from it

This is a guide based on something I read on Duowan
I found it useful and informative, so I decided to translate it for the benefit of those who cannot read Chinese
I was hoping it would help those who are undecided on T4 skill build
Is that really such a wrong thing to do? (tense)

I won't be replying to this thread any further. Any questions you have regarding this guide, go to the main site and ask the author.
It's not about opinion.

What Nretep wrote is the observable fact.
C and D are useless terms when calculating DPS. Combining B+C+D as your total overtime to redo the skill is misleading, hence giving the wrong result of DPS calculation.

Sure it's not wrong with simply translating what other people wrote. But since you are writing this as a Guide (not translation from a forum user in duowan), then you should also be responsible of the information correctness within the guide.