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[Fyi] Skills Ranking And Comparison (Updated With 93 Cap Charts)


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#21 Vaahneon

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 01:30 AM

View Postvertigo12, on 31 August 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

So they have nerfed the amplification value down to 80% from 100? Did they increase the proc chance as a compensation for it?

BH lvl 3 max at 70 is 80%... you need lvl 4 to make it 100% which needs a skill ring... and i dont put skill ring effects in the table...

activation chance is constant at 20% per level...

#22 Xenocho

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:22 AM

Vaahneon, did you do these calculations? If yes, could you include Fireball Non-EX for others to see where it stands in case it helps Fire Elestras? :) Thanks

Also, no information was stated regarding coefficients. Example: Is that phoenix damage a single or 3 bird damage?

Apart from that, good job :)

Edited by Xenocho, 31 August 2013 - 09:26 AM.


#23 makatoni

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostXenocho, on 31 August 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Vaahneon, did you do these calculations? If yes, could you include Fireball Non-EX for others to see where it stands in case it helps Fire Elestras? :) Thanks

Also, no information was stated regarding coefficients. Example: Is that phoenix damage a single or 3 bird damage?

Apart from that, good job :)

It is stated that the table "assumes" all hits are made, which means 3 birds...

@Topic:
My beloved Triple Orbs is 2nd in damage/cd table (:>)

#24 Vaahneon

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostXenocho, on 31 August 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Vaahneon, did you do these calculations? If yes, could you include Fireball Non-EX for others to see where it stands in case it helps Fire Elestras? :) Thanks

Also, no information was stated regarding coefficients. Example: Is that phoenix damage a single or 3 bird damage?

Apart from that, good job :)

all skills dealt full hit damage... so all coefficients are used at max value, summarized in the skills thread...

well for fireball, get 2/3 of its damage... since FB EX 3-way coeff is 1.5

Edited by Vaahneon, 31 August 2013 - 09:56 AM.


#25 Xenocho

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:42 AM

I see. I was looking for keyword coefficient :P

The boost on Maj damage might improve its future. The future content so far has no huge problem in dark resist :) I hope this thread improves the DN SEA perception of Majesty. Kinda miss seeing them around.

#26 Mira Jane

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 03:20 PM

Triple Orbs for the win~ (:D)  My majesty is still on standby (cool)

#27 Vaahneon

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:30 PM

added Saleana's burning hand passive to all fire skills...

#28 LurkerNoob

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:09 PM

View Postvertigo12, on 30 August 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

Van I'd like to contribute more data to your tabulation. For example % of Fire,Water, Dark, Non-elem skills included in top 5,10,20 ranking.

Kindly indicate the target and what various data are under consideration. Are MDEF taken under consideration? The Elemental resistance of Target? Since these would greatly affect the result of your computation


DATA:


Lv 60:


Trend: Fire skills seems to be the most damaging spells for Lv 60 category since 7/20 of its skills are included within top 20 skills. Dark and Non-Elemental would rank next since both have 4/9 of their skills are  included in top 20 list. Last but not least is Water Elemental having 4 out of 10 of its skills included in top 20.

Fire Skills 10 Skills
TOP 5: 2/5 [40%] of Fire-ased skills are included in Rank 1-5. 20% of all fire skills in top 5
1/2 - Fiery Vortex: Rank 1/5
2/2 - Flame Road: Rank 4/5

TOP 10: 4/10 [40%] of Fire-ased skills are included in Rank 1-5. 40% of all fire skills in top 10
1/4 - Fiery Vortex: Rank 1/10
2/4 - Flame Road: Rank 4/10
3/4 - Rolling Lave: 8/10
4/4 - Triple hit Fireball Ex: 10/10

TOP 20: 7/20 [35%] of Fire-ased skills are included in Rank 1-5. 70% of all fire skills in top 20
1/7 - Fiery Vortex: Rank 1/20
2/7 - Flame Road: Rank 2/20
3/7 - Rolling Lave: Rank 3/20
4/7 - Triple hit Fireball Ex: 4/20
5/7 - Firewall Ex: 13/20
6/7 - Inferno Ex: 14/20
7/7 - Phoenix Storm: 19/20

Water: 10 Skills
TOP 5: 1/5 [20%] of Water-based skills are included in Rank 1-5. 10% of all water skills in top 5
TOP 10: 2/10 [20%] of Water-based skills are included in Rank 1-5. 20% of all water skills in top 10
TOP 20: 4/20 [20%] of Water-based skills are included in Rank 1-5. 20% of all water skills in top 20

Dark: 9 Skills
TOP 5: 1/5 [20%] of Dark-based skills are included in Rank 1-5. 11% of all Dark skills in top 5
TOP 10: 2/10 [20%] of Dark-based skills are included in Rank 1-5. 22% of all Dark skills in top 10
TOP 20: 4/20 [20%] of Dark-based skills are included in Rank 1-5. 44% of all Dark skills in top 20

Non-Elemental: 9 Skills

TOP 5: 1/5 [20%] of Non-Elemental skills are included in Rank 1-5. 11% of all Non-Elemental skills in top 5
TOP 10: 2/10 [20%] of Non-Elemental skills are included in Rank 1-5. 22% of all Non-Elemental skills in top 10
TOP 20: 4/20 [20%] of Non-Elemental skills are included in Rank 1-5. 44% of all Non-Elemental skills in top 20
Is this a meaningful comparison to make? The absolute ranking of skill damage does not really matter since what you're really interested in is in how much damage these skills do for a specific class. To give an example, the #1 rank could do 1,000,000,000 fire damage, while rank #2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 deal 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2 dark damage. Does that mean dark is better than fire, since there are more dark skills in the top 10?

Secondly, is there a specific reason for using damage per skill instead of damage per second?

#29 soyoternity

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 11:28 PM

View PostLurkerNoob, on 31 August 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

Is this a meaningful comparison to make? The absolute ranking of skill damage does not really matter since what you're really interested in is in how much damage these skills do for a specific class. To give an example, the #1 rank could do 1,000,000,000 fire damage, while rank #2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 deal 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2 dark damage. Does that mean dark is better than fire, since there are more dark skills in the top 10?

Secondly, is there a specific reason for using damage per skill instead of damage per second?

well as for me,
first i can use this to compare lv60 and lv70 one, which skills has grown stronger, notice-able skills was gravity switch, then later for deciding which class got most benefits from lv70 update.

since to determine what skills to leveled to get the best set up for dps, you need consider 4 things:
1. dps, damage per second, basically total damage per cooldown time
2. damage per cast, basically total damage dealt per casting, mostly for determine burst damage, since on nest, you dont get all the chance to hit, some times you need running.dodging/ cooldown for avoid the aggro, or on superior buffs like beyond time, what skills the best to use. You will favor more a 500%+30k hit skill with 15sec cd then a 200%+10k hit skills for 5sec cd on a tight situation where you cant hit all the times.
3. time casting, basically, savety, for a majesty, long casting skills like meteor swarm might deals more damage then eraser , but it cast longer and cant be canceled, on aggressive bosses, this can be fatal, so some majesty (like me) got dual ulti for pve purpose.
4. damage growth, basically total damage on max level minus total damage on lv1 per sp used. Like you see, on the chart flame worm deal high dps for a saleana, but do you want to spend 23sp just for it?

#30 LurkerNoob

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:03 AM

View Postsoyoternity, on 31 August 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

well as for me,
first i can use this to compare lv60 and lv70 one, which skills has grown stronger, notice-able skills was gravity switch, then later for deciding which class got most benefits from lv70 update.

since to determine what skills to leveled to get the best set up for dps, you need consider 4 things:
1. dps, damage per second, basically total damage per cooldown time
2. damage per cast, basically total damage dealt per casting, mostly for determine burst damage, since on nest, you dont get all the chance to hit, some times you need running.dodging/ cooldown for avoid the aggro, or on superior buffs like beyond time, what skills the best to use. You will favor more a 500%+30k hit skill with 15sec cd then a 200%+10k hit skills for 5sec cd on a tight situation where you cant hit all the times.
3. time casting, basically, savety, for a majesty, long casting skills like meteor swarm might deals more damage then eraser , but it cast longer and cant be canceled, on aggressive bosses, this can be fatal, so some majesty (like me) got dual ulti for pve purpose.
4. damage growth, basically total damage on max level minus total damage on lv1 per sp used. Like you see, on the chart flame worm deal high dps for a saleana, but do you want to spend 23sp just for it?
??? But I wasn't quoting the starting post o_o

Edited by LurkerNoob, 01 September 2013 - 06:04 AM.


#31 Vaahneon

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 11:54 AM

how you deal damage depends on how you deal with enemies in battle... whether you want constant damaging or just wait for a perfect chance to deal heavy ones combined with a setup...

#32 ali5553

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostVaahneon, on 30 August 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

The Skills Ranking and Comparison of The Sorceress Skills



The Tables here represent the rankings of the sorceress skills compared with Damage, and Damage per Cooldown Time. This assumes all skills doing full hit damage on a target with no elem resist and no mdef.


Lvl 60

Notes: All skills are in max level, Sorceress base matk for 60 is 20000, elemental atk set at 30%, Smasher's lvl 2 Arcane buff included, so her matk is 23200. Elestra's ice skills have no -elem resist boost. Saleana's Burning Hand inlcuded in the calculation of the fire skills (hits twice for multi-hitting long-casting skills once for the others), burn damage included.

Lvl 60 Damage

Posted Image

Lvl 60 Damage Per CD

Posted Image


Lvl 70

Notes: Added here also are the 65 passives, Gravity and Time Controller, Flame and Chilling Master passives. Sorceress base matk 25000, Smasher's matk with Arcane Lvl 3 at 30000, laser skills CD reduced by 10% each via Time Controller, base elem atk at 30%, while Saleana and elestra have it at 40% with their passive effects, Gravity Switch, Gravity Ascension, and Black Hole coefficients doubled via Gravity Controller. Burn damage included, Burning hand passive damage included (although i used lvl 4 100%, and with 50% activation (plus 30% activation plate), assuming it activated on half of the hits), frostbite debuff not included.

Lvl 70 Damage

Posted Image

Lv 70 Damage per CD

Posted Image
so you confirmed that the plate is indeed additive for activation chance? if so than burning hand is pretty decent...
p.s.
thanks for this usefull info keep it up (clap) , could you also make a bar chart out of this like you did in your previous one?

Edited by ali5553, 01 September 2013 - 06:49 PM.


#33 Xenocho

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:55 AM

I think you shouldn't include burning hand this way though, since it's dependent on luck and plate choices may vary from one another. This could raise false hopes in some Salaenas. Or at least, you could keep your previous tables and not completely replace it with this, since some may still want to refer to those based on specific desires.

Hmmm, just a suggestion, since you could calculate this, you should share your coefficients too so people could do the calculations on their own based on own stats :)

#34 Vaahneon

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:34 AM

View PostXenocho, on 02 September 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

I think you shouldn't include burning hand this way though, since it's dependent on luck and plate choices may vary from one another. This could raise false hopes in some Salaenas. Or at least, you could keep your previous tables and not completely replace it with this, since some may still want to refer to those based on specific desires.

Hmmm, just a suggestion, since you could calculate this, you should share your coefficients too so people could do the calculations on their own based on own stats :)

well the chart isnt really accurate in any way for a real scenario battle in the first place... the top damage per cd skills are also basically skills you cannot land full hits on all targets...

which is why I only made this as FYI... to see how much potential each sorceress skill can deal... which also gives insights on how each skill grows, how the ex passive affects each skill growth along with the other innate passives...

Saleanas should accept the fact how variable their damage capability is through burning hand... because what is in the table may not always be the case... with almost all skills...

all coefficients are placed in the skill compilation page... you can just refer there...

Edited by Vaahneon, 02 September 2013 - 11:34 AM.


#35 Vaahneon

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 11:36 AM

View Postali5553, on 01 September 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

so you confirmed that the plate is indeed additive for activation chance? if so than burning hand is pretty decent...
p.s.
thanks for this usefull info keep it up (clap) , could you also make a bar chart out of this like you did in your previous one?

tried it last saturday... more info in the Sal-eles guide since i placed the burning hand analysis there... have videos but it'll take time for me to add it...

#36 yhabichan

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:08 AM

and i thought gravity switch surpasses the lazzor cutter in 70cap.. (T.T)

#37 Vaahneon

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:41 AM

View Postyhabichan, on 03 September 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

and i thought gravity switch surpasses the lazzor cutter in 70cap.. (T.T)

not yet... but its a big boost already... laser cutter has a huge skill amp growth at lvl 6... with GC lvl 2 i think its already possible...

#38 yhabichan

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:30 AM

just a question. how about the gravity ascension's additional debuff?
GAex debuff + Gravity Controller then Switch Gravity.

#39 Vaahneon

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:24 PM

View Postyhabichan, on 06 September 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

just a question. how about the gravity ascension's additional debuff?
GAex debuff + Gravity Controller then Switch Gravity.

I didnt add debuffs, since they're already in a different category... and it can also benefit other classes...

burning hand was included because its the 45 passive skill of saleana...

arcane, well its a selfish buff... only smasher can benefit from that anyway...

didnt include force shield's matk increase buff when activated, since this skill isnt as almost perm in duration as arcane... plus the variable trigger... as appealing the matk increase sounds, how it activates is a complete turn off..

#40 Vaahneon

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:48 AM

bumps