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Clarifications On Hoc-Clone Trick?


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#1 YondaimeHokage

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 08:11 AM

Please forgive me for being such a noob. Im an abysswalker by the way.

I have dual skill tree  and from the very start, my PVE build has max HoC, (hooray melonee will be proud of me (hat) ), because sometimes I have to be a nanny in the party, like changing diapers of my partymates when its full. (:D)

Kidding aside, at first I thought HOC trick was to summon your clones first then you do HoC but reading the other thread, I have learned that HoC trick is summoning the clones during the HoC buff duration which means that I have to cast HoC first then I cancel it either right click or jump, then cast kagebunshin no jutsu. (oo) Some say I should see my characters buff info, it will have an icon there, but sometimes I can't see because I have so many buffs, its already in two rows and I can't see HoC buff anymore. (bow)


Question is when do I cancel my HoC?
a. When my character starts doing the Indian sit pose even if he's not floating yet, I will immediately cancel it and do kagebunshin no jutsu?

b. When my character is already at peak, I will immediately cancel it and do kagebunshin no jutsu?

c. When my character is already at peak, I have to wait 3-5 sec then I will immediately cancel it and do kagebunshin no jutsu?

d. When I gather enough nature energy during meditation in HoC, I enter sage mode then i use Sage Art: kagebunshin no jutsu? (this is out of the option (lol))


Thank you for your answer. (clap)

#2 melonee

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 08:42 AM

Once you see your MP-healing tick (or even right before).
It's easier if you go and practice first till you get the timing right, you'll get a feeling for it that way. (:])

Maybe this video could help:


View PostYondaimeHokage, on 27 May 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

(hooray melonee will be proud of me (hat) )


(:D) (:D) (:D)

Edited by melonee, 27 May 2014 - 08:44 AM.


#3 SastraStunn

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:51 AM

HoC > Jump (space) > Circle Gore (right click) > summon shadow..

But, I usually use it for cat only (sorry) Because I'm a LF (:D)

#4 ShineNaruto

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:55 AM

Its not a trick o_o" people call it a trick just for semplicity.. because is for the skill itself
chakra heal give a buff each second.. and this buff last 2 seconds
you need to go down as fast as possible in those 2 seconds and do some skill (usually cat, shadows but also other fast cast skill)
you don't need to use it at the first tick... also when already passed 10secs etc just need to do it when the skill do his wave.. (when you hear the sound)

#5 TheSlowpoke

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 10:14 AM

yeah, it's not a trick actually.
It's as simple as double striking on heal relic

#6 LOLwutCrusader

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 11:00 AM



i dont know how to make signature so

Spoiler

why we don`t have this



#7 YondaimeHokage

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 12:48 PM

View Postmelonee, on 27 May 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Once you see your MP-healing tick (or even right before).
It's easier if you go and practice first till you get the timing right, you'll get a feeling for it that way. (:])

Maybe this video could help:


[/color]

br=

Oooh finally see it, when you see that the inner circle is formed or the "chinese" character was glows, cancel it immediately then proceed to summon. (clap) Can I use HoC trick with this one? Incantation->Nightfall->HoC->Dark Conviction?

View PostShineNaruto, on 27 May 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

Its not a trick o_o" people call it a trick just for semplicity.. because is for the skill itself
chakra heal give a buff each second.. and this buff last 2 seconds
you need to go down as fast as possible in those 2 seconds and do some skill (usually cat, shadows but also other fast cast skill)
you don't need to use it at the first tick... also when already passed 10secs etc just need to do it when the skill do his wave.. (when you hear the sound)
The problem is sometimes I can't see the duration of the HoC because there are already existing numerous buffs on my character for full two rows. (sorry) I don't know if buff was already active or already refreshed (tense)

I think it can be still considered as a trick because it is by definition a clever and skillful action to get a certain result. It is like systematically using existing factors to enhance a skill to make it better compared to its previous quality.

View PostTheSlowpoke, on 27 May 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

yeah, it's not a trick actually.
It's as simple as double striking on heal relic
Yes there are almost the same but there are certain variability or hindrances.

First , In relic scenario, striking last for 180 sec so which means you don't time when to cast relics because the duration itself was long. Unlike HoC in which there is only 2 sec duration for you to cast it.

In the second buffing wherein the clones are already summoned and you use HoC again, you have to maintain to channel the skill unlike striking in which you buff and leave the relic after. What makes its harder is sometimes you must follow your summon because once the summon is out of the range, recasting of buff is cease which is unlike relics in which no matter how far you are, it is still buffed for the whole duration.


Yeah so I seldom do 2nd buffing. I use the filler skills (:D)

#8 fayt03

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 03:40 PM

View PostTheSlowpoke, on 27 May 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

yeah, it's not a trick actually.
It's as simple as double striking on heal relic
i think 'bug' is the word you're looking for, because considering the method of cancelling the buff at the right timing, it's not a simple skill combo/sequence and thus, a 'trick,' like a flourish or flair, if you will. It's like the 1-puddle poison pool for sorc, or the horizontal judgment hammer for crux, where you do more than just cast the skill to pull it off.

#9 ShineNaruto

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 05:03 PM

View PostYondaimeHokage, on 27 May 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Oooh finally see it, when you see that the inner circle is formed or the "chinese" character was glows, cancel it immediately then proceed to summon. (clap) Can I use HoC trick with this one? Incantation->Nightfall->HoC->Dark Conviction

The problem is sometimes I can't see the duration of the HoC because there are already existing numerous buffs on my character for full two rows. (sorry) I don't know if buff was already active or already refreshed (tense)

I think it can be still considered as a trick because it is by definition a clever and skillful action to get a certain result. It is like systematically using existing factors to enhance a skill to make it better compared to its previous quality.


Yes there are almost the same but there are certain variability or hindrances.

First , In relic scenario, striking last for 180 sec so which means you don't time when to cast relics because the duration itself was long. Unlike HoC in which there is only 2 sec duration for you to cast it.

In the second buffing wherein the clones are already summoned and you use HoC again, you have to maintain to channel the skill unlike striking in which you buff and leave the relic after. What makes its harder is sometimes you must follow your summon because once the summon is out of the range, recasting of buff is cease which is unlike relics in which no matter how far you are, it is still buffed for the whole duration.


Yeah so I seldom do 2nd buffing. I use the filler skills class=

Incantation->Nightfall->HoC->Dark Conviction

yes you can do this o_o"... if you are fast enough...


for the buff problem... <_<" you have no sounds on the game? because its very easy hear that wave sound from hoc...o_o it buffs when you hear the sound so you don't need to watch the buff at all (also because the buff starts at 1 and you already too late to see it)... another mode is when you see the light wave executed o_o"..

#10 fourrier

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 05:11 PM

Do it at the very moment you see the MP restored (since you may have full HP and HoC has nothing to heal), space then circle gore, or right click.

I've tried in the situation where I randomly cancel it when floating. There is a chance that it won't work because you cancelled at "1 second left" instead of "2 seconds left", resulting your summons are up after the effect is off.

Edited by fourrier, 27 May 2014 - 05:11 PM.


#11 YondaimeHokage

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Posted 27 May 2014 - 07:00 PM

View PostShineNaruto, on 27 May 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

[/color]
Incantation->Nightfall->HoC->Dark Conviction

yes you can do this o_o"... if you are fast enough...


for the buff problem... <_<" you have no sounds on the game? because its very easy hear that wave sound from hoc...o_o it buffs when you hear the sound so you don't need to watch the buff at all (also because the buff starts at 1 and you already too late to see it)... another mode is when you see the light wave executed o_o"..
Uhmm im using speakers but i put the volume low so I wont disturb people around me.....
And btw I read HoC-trick on active multihit skills, they say its not efficient because its calculated base on your current patk for every hit. During the buff, the hit deals bonus damage but when the buff vanished the hit deals the normal damage. (:D)


#12 Bulate

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 08:26 PM

Hello Guys! I'm a newbie in dragon nest and I decided to make a light bringer. Now, I've come to the point of confusion regarding the HoC trick. All the videos I've watch regarding the HoC trick makes their character meditate when doing using Chakra healing. I, in my case, are having struggles regarding this because when I use Chakra Healing, my character summons a clone instead of meditating. How come? I'm sorry for the noob question. A newbie LB here (tense)

#13 rikolero

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 05:51 PM

LMAO that necro (lol)

Anyways, there's a couple of changes on HoC since the arrival of 90 cap: 1) The attack buff and HP healing has been removed, leaving it with only the damage reduction buff and MP recovery; and 2) as you've mentioned, change in mechanics. The caster doesn't channel the skill, instead leaving a clone to do the work. Add the fact the most of the party buffs have been streamlined and removed, therefore this trick has been made obsolete.