Jump to content


[T5/3R Guide] Guardians - That Others May Live [Pve Pure Support / Hp-Stacking Guardian] - Now With Video Evidence Of Gf Being Fixed


  • Please log in to reply
326 replies to this topic

#41 kLaRo

kLaRo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 144 posts
  • Guardian
  • DN, Springwood
  • VGM-SGX

Posted 14 March 2016 - 11:26 AM

UP  . (love) Go Guardians . (;])

#42 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 01 April 2016 - 10:47 PM

Five months ago I posted a bug report asking for Eydentity to fix the Guardian Force bug. After three months of bumping the thread that followed, I lost hope. Many others also lost hope.

Though the unexpected occurred this Tuesday with a patch full of ninja changes, and somewhere in the list of changes, this small flame of hope for us Guardians has sparked to create change.

Ladies and gentleman, fellow Guardians, may I present the long-awaited good news:


Guardian Force is now fixed!



That's right. With over 128% confidence can I say that it has happened.


My Team happened to notice how strong the Guardian Force was on our RDN run earlier today. At the dragon phases, we tested our our suspicion carefully. We must have tried 8 to 10 times, getting consistent results each time.


Some things to note:


My HP was 4.6 million each time we ran a test, meaning that my raw GF HP was 920k.

Any buffs which may affect the test were carefully avoided.


Tested with 500k HP Soul Eater (stripped) w/ GF - Tanked Dragon stomp with 200k remaining, 300k lost. Tested three times; consistent results.


Tested 500k HP Soul Eater (stripped) w/ no GF - Died in one hit on stomp impact. Tested two times; consistent results.


Tested 800k Soul Eater (semi-stripped) w/ GF - Survived stomp with 500k HP, lost 300k. Tested twice; consistent results.


Tested 800k Soul Eater (semi-stripped) without GF - Dead on stomp impact. Tested twice; consistent results.


There is absolutely no denying these results. The math here does not add up unless GF is indeed fixed, hence my conclusion. I encourage everyone here to grab a friend and post their own results here for comparison. I hope to be able to record an RDN Abyss run next week demonstrating these new findings.


Edited by Riuga, 01 April 2016 - 10:52 PM.


#43 Novissimum

Novissimum

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1755 posts
  • Scampai

Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:10 PM

View PostRiuga, on 01 April 2016 - 10:47 PM, said:

Guardian Force is now fixed!



That's right. With over 128% confidence can I say that it has happened.


My Team happened to notice how strong the Guardian Force was on our RDN run earlier today. At the dragon phases, we tested our our suspicion carefully. We must have tried 8 to 10 times, getting consistent results each time.


Some things to note:


My HP was 4.6 million each time we ran a test, meaning that my raw GF HP was 920k.

Any buffs which may affect the test were carefully avoided.


Tested with 500k HP Soul Eater (stripped) w/ GF - Tanked Dragon stomp with 200k remaining, 300k lost. Tested three times; consistent results.


Tested 500k HP Soul Eater (stripped) w/ no GF - Died in one hit on stomp impact. Tested two times; consistent results.


Tested 800k Soul Eater (semi-stripped) w/ GF - Survived stomp with 500k HP, lost 300k. Tested twice; consistent results.


Tested 800k Soul Eater (semi-stripped) without GF - Dead on stomp impact. Tested twice; consistent results.

curious, when you say semi-stripped, how much did the pdef/mdef increase? unless, you tell me that the hp increment is not from armours.

#44 rikolero

rikolero

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3873 posts

Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:17 PM

Oh great. I can now give barriers as a Destro properly. (:>)

#45 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:28 PM

View PostNovissimum, on 01 April 2016 - 11:10 PM, said:

curious, when you say semi-stripped, how much did the pdef/mdef increase? unless, you tell me that the hp increment is not from armours.

The 500k tests were a full set of RDN L armor with no VIT jades. The 800k tests were 3-piece RDN L armor with no VIT jades, with VIT-jaded Cauda gloves and boots. Defense increased by roughly 5 percent.

The main point of interest here is that regardless of armor in both cases, without GF, she was one hit. GF had to be more than 160k or 100k in order to prevent a death with 500k and 200k remaining, respectively.

Edited by Riuga, 01 April 2016 - 11:30 PM.


#46 Novissimum

Novissimum

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1755 posts
  • Scampai

Posted 01 April 2016 - 11:56 PM

View PostRiuga, on 01 April 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

The 500k tests were a full set of RDN L armor with no VIT jades. The 800k tests were 3-piece RDN L armor with no VIT jades, with VIT-jaded Cauda gloves and boots. Defense increased by roughly 5 percent.

The main point of interest here is that regardless of armor in both cases, without GF, she was one hit. GF had to be more than 160k or 100k in order to prevent a death with 500k and 200k remaining, respectively.
so u're saying everyone has 920k gforce hp, yes?

#47 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 02 April 2016 - 12:07 AM

View PostNovissimum, on 01 April 2016 - 11:56 PM, said:

so u're saying everyone has 920k gforce hp, yes?

Yes. Everyone ended up admitting that they felt that it lasted longer and didn't break as often by the end of the run, which in addition to the above test with our SE, satisfies my definition of conclusive evidence. Feel free to test it out yourself.

As for the 920k HP GF, I'm not sure how the HP carries over. Right now I believe its just 'additional' HP under the buff recipient's own defense, instead of the caster's defense or something special like that.

Edited by Riuga, 02 April 2016 - 12:07 AM.


#48 FirePhoenix

FirePhoenix

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3762 posts
  • zArAthena/zArSuika
  • DN, Holywood
  • VongolaVN

Posted 02 April 2016 - 01:42 AM

Just do a quick test.
Case 1: tank have 2m hp.
Case 2: tank have 269k hp.
My flurry have the same gear in both case. If GF depend on caster, in case 2 I will received much more dmg. But in my test, both case have similiar dmg.
I have full hp before eat stomp. This is picture after eat stomp
Case 1:
Posted Image
Case 2:

Posted Image

#49 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 02 April 2016 - 01:49 PM

I believe the new 90 Nests may produce some different results. I did my tests in RDN Practice mode. There are a few factors to consider, including boss level. Naturally, you would have higher defense and Crit Resist in RDN which all help stabilize the results. I'll do some further testing in RDN this coming Monday and see if they still line up with my results so far.

I must add that in your case, it was a matter of 400k GF versus 54k GF.  The damage you took could have varied up to / around 300-350k each time you get hit, as was in my own DN HC test just now. In RDN, the damage variations would naturally be more stable.

Edited by Riuga, 02 April 2016 - 08:30 PM.


#50 tanlv

tanlv

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 02 April 2016 - 03:02 PM

what level is recommended for SOF?

#51 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 03 April 2016 - 01:01 PM

View Posttanlv, on 02 April 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

what level is recommended for SOF?

Since this is a Pure Support Guardian guide thread, I'm going to ignore political correctness and say "as high as possible, and plate it with 20% duration".

#52 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 04 April 2016 - 01:07 AM

Our RDN schedule has been shifted to Thursday next week, so I'm afraid the GF re-tests will have to wait until then instead of tomorrow as initially planned.

Edited by Riuga, 04 April 2016 - 01:08 AM.


#53 Novissimum

Novissimum

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1755 posts
  • Scampai

Posted 04 April 2016 - 01:24 AM

View PostRiuga, on 04 April 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

Our RDN schedule has been shifted to Thursday next week, so I'm afraid the GF re-tests will have to wait until then instead of tomorrow as initially planned.
how do u plan on testing it?

#54 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 04 April 2016 - 08:36 AM

View PostNovissimum, on 04 April 2016 - 01:24 AM, said:

how do u plan on testing it?

Dragon Stomp, is probably the easiest way to go about testing this. We'll ensure no buffs interfere with a test case and write down how much HP the test subject has before and after each test case, including his DEF. I will also ensure my HP is buffed to  4.6m. We will alternate GF and no GF for what I hope to be another 10 or more test cases. I'll post the test results here after the matter, and you can judge for yourself if the difference is large enough to comfortably say that GF is indeed fixed.

Edited by Riuga, 04 April 2016 - 08:37 AM.


#55 Ameron

Ameron

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1789 posts
  • Ameron
  • DN, Westwood
  • One

Posted 05 April 2016 - 10:56 AM

Well, I tried GF in RDN last night, my team members are a whole lot tankier than before. They can tank stomps and whatever without breaking their barrier. Maybe they fixed it or something.

#56 ProseKid

ProseKid

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 184 posts
  • ProseKid
  • DN, Greenwood
  • SevenFold,Moscato and DESU

Posted 05 April 2016 - 12:01 PM

wow higher hp better for guardian (love)  20% max hp of guardian converted to bubble shield nice 1 (;])

if a guardian focus solely for hp.

#57 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 08 April 2016 - 11:44 PM

Apologies to those looking forward to the test results which should have been due yesterday. Our customer for RDN this week, on top of connectivity issues, more or less screwed up our entire schedule, forcing us to rush the clears due to time constraints. I'll try to do the tests this coming Monday. Hopefully everything goes smoothly.

Update: It seems our customer this week wishes to run on Tuesday instead. Apologies for further delaying the tests, once again.

Edited by Riuga, 11 April 2016 - 03:05 PM.


#58 Joluuzz

Joluuzz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12375 posts
  • -Banned-
  • DN, Westwood
  • [Anderson Member]

Posted 13 April 2016 - 03:52 PM

Guardians should definitely be a must for parties with new adventurers or first timers in Raid. That buff on GF can help them learn stage mechanics without the fear of getting 1 hit KO.

#59 Riuga

Riuga

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 953 posts
  • iRiuga
  • DN, Holywood
  • Programmers

Posted 13 April 2016 - 08:27 PM

The results from yesterday's RDN and DN HC tests were disheartening to say the least.

It seems as though GF is not only still based on the party member's HP, but that it is based on their current HP rather than max HP.

Tests #1, meant to test whether GF was based on my HP or the Member's.
Spoiler

Test #2, meant to test whether or not GF is based on the buff receiver's current HP or max HP
Spoiler

What is odd is the rise in the amount of people admitting that they feel GF is more durable now after the latest patch. I suspect it may just be us underestimating the extra defense that comes along with RDN-L armor, and since more teams and people have access to these armors nowawadays, people start to point fingers to GF as the most plausible explanation, and a chain reaction builds up as more people say that it is GF that is causing this.

What I can say is that this doesn't mean we shoud lose hope that GF will be eventually fixed. Hopefully this new found information can be used in order to use GF more 'efficiently', as well as enhance Healer-Guardian cooperation to ensure that Guardian Force's durability is maximized.

I believe I fulfilled what I have promised a week ago. This will be my contribution to this case. If you would like to discuss further, or have other points you wish to bring up, you are welcome to do so as this is a democratic discussion.

I will, however, ask for some time in order to update relevant portions of this guide now that we know that GF is based on current rather than max HP. Expect two weeks from now as I'm fairly busy.

Edited by Riuga, 13 April 2016 - 08:56 PM.


#60 rikolero

rikolero

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3873 posts

Posted 13 April 2016 - 09:13 PM

That was way worse than I thought. The GF buff (and probably its similar buffs) got nerfed from being a SA buff and damage mitigation buff to solely SA buff. A partymate with a low HP can't be saved by GF alone anymore.