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Punching Your Way To Victory - Ruina & Defensio Pve Guide


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#1 melonee

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:41 AM

Hello everyone!

Machina just got released and i've instantly become addicted to her.
At the same time i've been seeing quite a few fellow Machina players struggle with her and our currently pretty horribly translated skill descriptions.
That and the fact that back in the day when i created my Bringer Guide i've learned alot myself, inspired me to give it another try.
So here it is a (hopefully) comprehensive and preferably interactive* Machina PVE-Guide for both, Ruina and Defensio.

*By "interactive" i mean that i highly appreciate ANY input.
Be it additional information, criticism or correction of wrong information (if that should ever be the case).
Asking questions and answering those of others is also really welcome in this thread!

Note: This is a guide based on my opinion and experiences. I don't force anyone to follow and agree with it.
You should rather just use it as a guideline, that's what a guide is for, right? (:])

But now, let's start!

Skillbuilds:


Base builds:
I tried to really just show the most important skills here,
some skills are definitely recommended to be higher (Beyond the Wall on Ruina for example), but i'll talk about that later~


If you follow this you should be fine no matter where you put your remaining SP.

Base Ruina:
Posted Image


Base Defensio:
Posted Image


Personal Builds:
DO NOT!!!! follow blindly

Ruina

Spoiler


Defensio:

Spoiler



Skills:


Since Machina is already implemented in our server and everyone can just check the skills + values themselves i will not explain every skill one by one.
I will mainly talk about the important skills here and perhaps explain why i chose certain skills in my builds.




Machina Tree:

Spoiler



Patrona Tree:

Spoiler



Ruina Tree:

Spoiler



Defensio Tree:

Spoiler




Gear Step, Duck and Command Enhancement:



This is a little bit more complicated part of Machina, but not that confusing anymore once you understand it.

Gear Step is basically a 25% action speed buff you get when you cast either Foot Stomp, Rock away or Step up, which are the 3 "Basic Gear Steps"

From there on you can either
A.) chain into Command Enhancement Skills by pressing either the left or right mouse button,
skills activated that way will recieve the Command Enhancement Buff which means they will deal 20% more damage

B.) use Duck by pressing Space and chain into another Gear Step Skill

You can use Duck after all the Command Enhancement Skills and after Bodycheck (double right click) aswell, even after other skills like Overcharge or Taunting Blow.

That way you can potentially chain skills forever with only the left- and right-mouse button and space and benefit from the 25% action speed buff and 20% more damage on your Skills.


An example of a "endless" combo would be:

Bodycheck > Duck > Foot Stomp > Flow Up > Duck > Rock away > Kidney Blow > Overcharge > Duck > and so on
=
Double right click > Space > Left click > Left click > Space > Right click > Right click > Left click spam > Space > etc.

more information can be found here:
http://forum.cherryc...ancement-issue/


Alternatively here's a chart so you can see which skill chains into which skill and how:





Posted Image



The Secret to Power:


Machina's main source of damage are not her skills. It's her normal attacks chained into those skills.

Basically, after using various skills your normal attacks RIGHT AFTER those skills will inherit the board damage of the skill you just used.

This also applies to Overcharge,
which means by using Overcharge you can hit the full board damage of your strong skills another 15+ times.

Skills this works on (in order of power) are:
Beat Down
Kidney Blow
Flying Knee Kick

Other skills it's possible with but where it's not really recommended to Overcharge into are:
Flow Up and Overheating

So make sure to ALWAYS use normal attacks right after those skills.
Ruinas should try to always use Overcharge after the normal attacks aswell.


The exact coeffcients for the normal attacks after skills (based on the skill's board damage) are:
1.333 1.333 1.333 for the first 3 hits,
1.6 for the 4th hit
1.73333 for the normal final hit

and 1 for every hit of Overcharge.

credits to fourrier:
http://forum.cherryc...e/#entry2794629



Equipment:


Machina is a neutral, AGI-based class which makes her rather easy to gear.
Ruina should just aim for high damage, Defensio should add tankyness.


Otherwise just build her like any other class.



Skillplates:


Ruina:
Beat Down +DMG, is the core skill plate.

Also recommended:
Kidney Blow +action speed

Flying Knee Kick +action speed
Flow Up +DMG

Other viable options:
Kidney Blow +DMG
Rock Away +DMG
Flying Knee Kick +DMG
Overheat +DMG / +action speed
Deus EX Machina +DMG
Leap Over +DMG

Explanation:
Beat Down is your core damage skill so it goes without question that you would want a damage plate for it to make it even stronger.
Rock Away for the "invincible missile spam" if you plan to use it often.
The reason i chose Kidney Blow action speed over +DMG is simply that the action speed plate
increases the action speed for the normal attacks (and overcharge) that follow after kidney blow aswell.
(and ofc because Kidney Blow is a slow skill in general)
If both skills (beat down and kidney blow) are off cooldown you would prioritize beat down anyway.
With the action speed plate you can squeeze in a kidney blow +norm.atks.+overcharge in shorter DPS windows where a beat down or a unplated kidney blow would be too slow.
This also applies to Flying Knee Kick.

That way you have a higher distinction and more desicion making is invovled between whether you should use beat down or kidney blow (when both are off cooldown).

Basically, if all skills are off cooldown:
If the DPS window is long enough -> use Beat Down + normal attacks + overcharge
If the DPS window is shorter -> Kidney Blow + normal attacks + overcharge
If the mob is too far away for Beat Down or Kidney Blow + normal attacks to hit -> Flying Knee Kick + normal attacks + overcharge

Personally i also found it easier to use the Kidney Blow combo right after the Beat Down combo with the action speed plate.


And of course it's pointless to get a Flying Knee Kick plate if you don't have it leveled or never use it, same applies to Flow Up,Overheat etc.


Defensio:
Beat Down +DMG, is the core skill plate.

Also recommended:
Repair -CD

Leap Over +DMG
Taunting Blow +DMG
Kidney Blow +action speed
Flying Knee Kick +action speed


Other viable options:
Kidney Blow +DMG
Rock Away +DMG
Flying Knee Kick +DMG


Explanation:
Repair because it's just such a useful skill,
Leap Over because it's part of your "usual combo" so you'll be using it alot, might aswell get the most out of it.
Taunting Blow because you usually spam it off cooldown so might aswell make the most out of it too.
Other options are explained in the Ruina part.


Ruina or Defensio?


After testing both my conclusion is that:

Ruina: deals more damage but it's harder to pull that off, she is more of a bursty dps compared to Defensio, she also relies way more on her Overboost than Defensio.
And i feel like if she doesn't spam Overcharge, Defensio is just as strong as her (if not even stronger) (but well, not like anyone is going to NOT use overcharge)

Defensio: deals less but still tons of damage, more of a continuous dps class that can work as a main tank if required
(since i have no experience with tanks i can't tell how good or bad she is compared to other maintanks tho)

(perhaps i should point out that it's just what it felt like to me, i didn't really calculate anything.
also i used to play in the "most potential damage" way aka just spamming strong skills into autoattacks into overcharge (on ruina) and not fancy fun stuff like endless ducking combos or "machina's infinite missile spam"... but then again both can do that so not like it would make a difference)

Nothing new i know, but i'd say Defensio is still a great damage class eventhough she's weaker than a Overcharge spamming Ruina.

Summary:

Ruina pros: higher damage
Ruina cons: heavy reliance on overcharge (for maximum potential damage output) and hence overboost too (which means buff clear mechanics cripple her quite alot until she can use overboost again)

Defensio pros: not highly reliant on overboost, not limited to dps role
Defensio cons: no overcharge which leads to less damage overall


Eitherway both are tons of fun and really strong!


General Gameplay


This is probably the most biased segment of this guide since it's always up to personal preferences how you want to use your character.
I'm just going to explain how i personally like to use my Machina which is what i think to be the most effective way.
Generally there's not just one way to use a class, even more so with Machina where you have basically endless combo options.

Ruina


Key to maximum damage: Spam Overcharge as much as possible

Make sure you always have Overboost buffed, it's also ideal if you can make sure to always have 30 Steam so you can rebuff Overboost as soon as it expires etc. (and ofc because it boosts your agi).
If you have overboost buffed you can easily generate 30Steam by doing the "Machina Invincible Missile":
(Overboost, Body Check/Foot Stomp/Step up > Duck > Rock Away > Duck > Rock Away > etc.) =
(Overboost, Body Check/Foot Stomp/Step up > Space > Right Mouse Button > Space > Right Mouse Button etc.)


This also deals decent damage at the same time.

It's also a good idea to spam Beyond the Wall since the buff not only helps reduce the damage you take but prevents your skills from getting cancelled aswell, it's always annoying if your Overcharge gets cancelled mid-charge.

Other than that it depends on various factors, generally you will want to spam your strong skills (especially Beat Down and Kidney Blow) followed by normal attacks into Overcharge.

As i mentioned earlier, if all skills are off cooldown you should preferably follow this guideline:
If the DPS window is long enough -> use Beat Down + normal attacks + overcharge
If the DPS window is shorter and you have a Kidney Blow action speed plate -> Kidney Blow + normal attacks + overcharge
If the mob is too far away for Beat Down or Kidney Blow + normal attacks to hit -> Flying Knee Kick + normal attacks + overcharge

After that you will have to decide if you have enough time for another of those combos or just a Foot Stomp > Flow Up chain or any other filler skill etc. (preferably initiated by a Duck right after Overcharge)



Defensio


Make sure to always have Overboost buffed aswell.
Spam Beyond the Wall, it's even more important on Defensio.

If you are the main tank make sure to always spam Taunting Blow (preferably off cooldown, but the break between two Taunting Blows should never be longer than 15seconds)


My most spammed combo is usually something like

Either
A.) Taunting Blow > Right Click > Step up/Rock Away

or what i do more often:

B.) Taunting Blow > Duck > Step up/Rock Away

into 2.) - Leap Over*/Kidney Blow > (If Leap Over, Cancel mid air with space) > Beyond the Wall > Left Click > Cancel the Flyback with another Left Click > Beat Down EXi > Normal Attacks

After that i use Taunting Blow again (since it will usually be off cooldown by then) into Duck > Step up > the regular Beat Down > normal attacks

AND LASTLY i finish it off with another Duck into Kidney Blow / Knee Kick / Leap Over and start all over from 2.), or B.) if Taunting Blow is off cooldown

In button clicks that means:

A.) Taunting Blow > Right Click > Step up/Rock Away

B.) Taunting Blow > Space > Space/Right Click
into 2.) - > Right Click > (If Leap Over: Space) > Beyond the Wall > Left Click > Left Click > Beat Down EXi > Left Click Spam


Taunting Blow > Space > Space > Left Click > Left Click Spam

> Space > Space/Right Click > Right Click/Left Click > 2.) / B.)


*It's better to use Kidney Blow instead of Leap Over on small mobs (or everytime you know you won't be able to get  6 or more hits from leap over), or of course if you don't have leap over maxed.

Leap Over outdamages Kidney Blow at around 6hits, if you can get more you should prioritize it as the combo start, otherwise just go for Kidney Blow. The casting time is around the same anyway.
(Note: This only applies to the combo start, if you compare Leap Over's damage with Kidney Blow+ normal attacks, Kidney will outdamage Leap Over)


Instead of using step up manually you can start your charging gear charge, release it early and go straight into duck aswell.

Of course you can't always follow this combo since it depends on the circumstances (and you have to dodge skills etc aswell.) you also can change up this combo alot to make it fit your style better. It's all about personal preference and playstyle.

If you are NOT the main tank you can skip the Taunting Blow spam aswell, and you should definitely skip Taunting Blow if you have another tank in your party who is supposed to work as one.


Also keep in mind that this Combo is to fulfill both, the DPS and the Tank role at the same time.

If you want/have to take more of a DPS role in your Party you can squeeze in another skill that could potentially deal more damage by skipping Taunting Blow.

If you want/have to take more of a Tank role you can Skip all the fancy combos and just use Taunting Blow and Beyond the Wall without chains. (Aka activate BtW by just Jumping).

Add filler skills etc. to your own taste.


Posted Image


Edited by melonee, 28 December 2015 - 10:44 PM.


#2 melonee

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:41 AM

reserved 1

#3 melonee

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:41 AM

reserved 2

#4 melonee

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:42 AM

reserved 3 just in case (shame)

#5 Haru18

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:52 AM

Suppork (:>)

#6 Erui

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 11:54 AM

suppork!

#7 Hazu

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:13 PM

+1 Suppork! (:D)

#8 kambinks

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:22 PM

I remember using "suppork" once here in this forums and most didn't understood what its suppose to mean.. probably a different generation of forumers then (:D)

Good luck on your guide.

Oh and hoping for plate recommendations section :D Got a Rockaway plate yesterday and I'm crafting it for damage just for fun.. Beyond the wall mp recovery (:D)

#9 Mantimoss

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 02:02 PM

Out of curiosity, is it worth it if I maxed foot stomp? (oo;)

#10 VerzFM

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 03:16 PM

Plates pls.

#11 WhyNoPlay

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 05:32 PM

I missed your guides, Support~ (clap) (clap)

#12 melonee

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 09:35 PM

View PostMantimoss, on 27 December 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Out of curiosity, is it worth it if I maxed foot stomp? (oo;)

ruina: ye if you spam flow up
defensio: nah

it's not a important skill to max and if you want to conserve mp you could keep it at 1 but well... if you spam it, more damage is always good (shame)

#13 melonee

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 12:12 AM

Updated with skill descriptions, "The Secret to Power" Section and Skill plate recommendations (:])

#14 Haru18

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 01:08 AM

You can duck from tauting blow initial hit (before explosion) and actually I'm considering it to open rotation instead of body check

#15 fourrier

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 01:50 AM

Does damage plate FD transfer to left click ?

How good overheat action speed plate is? Does it simply increase animation speed or allows more beating to be thrown?

Also, this is just my observation : I think the coefficient of left click spam is different from what the old sieg's write up.
From what I see, the hit from overcharge deals less damage from the actual skill damage, while the 2nd-4th hit deals more, and 5th hit (launching kick) deals the highest damage.

Edited by fourrier, 28 December 2015 - 01:52 AM.


#16 melonee

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 01:53 AM

View Postfourrier, on 28 December 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

Does damage plate FD transfer to left click ?
Also, this is just my observation : I think the coefficient of left click spam is different from what the old sieg's write up.
From what I see, the hit from overcharge deals less damage from the actual skill damage, while the 2nd-4th hit deals more, and 5th hit (launching kick) deals the highest damage.

During my test the big hit of beat down dealt 2,7mio crit, so did all hits of overcharge.
the first few norm attacks dealt 3,7mio which is a 37% increase, the last norm attack dealt 4,4 so ~63% more

when i tested it with other skills it seemed to be that way too... but idk maybe i did something wrong? (shame)


View PostHaru18, on 28 December 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

You can duck from tauting blow initial hit (before explosion) and actually I'm considering it to open rotation instead of body check

I usually just use step up or rock away to start ducking, but now that you say it taunting blow seems like a even better opening

Edited by melonee, 28 December 2015 - 01:56 AM.


#17 Haru18

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 02:05 AM

View Postfourrier, on 28 December 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

Does damage plate FD transfer to left click ?

How good overheat action speed plate is? Does it simply increase animation speed or allows more beating to be thrown?

Also, this is just my observation : I think the coefficient of left click spam is different from what the old sieg's write up.
From what I see, the hit from overcharge deals less damage from the actual skill damage, while the 2nd-4th hit deals more, and 5th hit (launching kick) deals the highest damage.

Yes
I read that AS plate doesn't give more punch
Sieg's guide is for 80 cap some of them maybe different now. But do note that OC deals up to 15 hit even the number is small the damage still there

Edited by Haru18, 28 December 2015 - 02:09 AM.


#18 fourrier

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 03:41 AM

I decided it to test myself on Colosseum dummy
result :

2937 atk

Normal attack
no charge :
785 785 785 942 1021
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x

overcharge
785 785 785 942 589 (repeating)
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x 0.75x

beat up
4122 on final hit

Normal attack after beat up:
5495 5495 5495 6594 7144
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x

normal attack overcharge after beat up
5495 5495 5495 6594 4122(repeating)
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x (skill board damage repeating)

notice that the overcharge hit = skill hit
So, if we measure everything by skill's board damage, it'll be

1.333 1.333 1.333 1.6 for 1st-4th hit
1.73333 for normal final hit
1 for every hit of overcharge

So it's not 2.8*a + 15*a anymore, but 5.6*a + 15(?)*a right now
There's no ignore defense part anymore in 90 cap right? Looking how the EXes change here

Edited by fourrier, 28 December 2015 - 03:42 AM.


#19 melonee

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 03:59 AM

View Postfourrier, on 28 December 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

I decided it to test myself on Colosseum dummy
result :

2937 atk

Normal attack
no charge :
785 785 785 942 1021
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x

overcharge
785 785 785 942 589 (repeating)
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x 0.75x

beat up
4122 on final hit

Normal attack after beat up:
5495 5495 5495 6594 7144
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x

normal attack overcharge after beat up
5495 5495 5495 6594 4122(repeating)
pattern : x x x 1.2x 1.3x (skill board damage repeating)

notice that the overcharge hit = skill hit
So, if we measure everything by skill's board damage, it'll be

1.333 1.333 1.333 1.6 for 1st-4th hit
1.73333 for normal final hit
1 for every hit of overcharge

So it's not 2.8*a + 15*a anymore, but 5.6*a + 15(?)*a right now
There's no ignore defense part anymore in 90 cap right? Looking how the EXes change here

Great thanks!
Oh didn't realise there was a even stronger final normal hit, gonna add that.

Yeah the ignore defense part is gone from what i've seen

#20 melonee

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 08:05 AM

Finished the guide.
Let me know if i forgot anything or if you want to see another segment!
Thank you and enjoy! (:])

Hope it will help some of you out there~