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Punching Your Way To Victory - Ruina & Defensio Pve Guide


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#41 kambinks

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 09:55 PM

What are the plates for Beat Down again? Cause if its CD maybe it'd be better with CD than damage since Beatdown is so easy to integrate into skill rotations and spammable. Casting more Beatdowns might be a better gain than damage.

#42 Haru18

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 10:26 PM

Beat down has DMG / CD. But AFAIK beat down dmg plate still translate damage  increased into normal attack. If you use cd plate the timing to combo can become too short

#43 RoronaKenshin

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 10:32 PM

TATAKAU HEROOO!

Edited by RoronaKenshin, 28 December 2015 - 10:36 PM.


#44 melonee

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 10:44 PM

Okay after heavy testing, focusing on my combo and practicing it i came up with the one i'm most comfortable with
(i didn't know i used kidney blow that much),
so i edited the defensio playstyle part again.
Since there are basically endless combos i also pointed it out more that this is just my way "favorite" combo (:])

Also personally i don't think a Beat Down C/D plate is necesassary, i'm already stressed out enough to make sure i spam taunting blow (if i'm tanking), beyond the wall and beat down + exi, even without the c/d plate

#45 Hazu

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 11:04 PM

Is it okay if I take Ducking skill ring for my Ruina? It gives 100% CD reduction for Gear Steps. I'm still blindly spamming skills (shame) well I always use Foot Stomping > Ducking > random clicking. (:D)

#46 fourrier

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 11:13 PM

Finally, got to taste some abyss dungeon.
And I have to say, in term of efficiency, forget about ducking to another skill line.

I basically have 3 overcharge pattern and I just rotate these 3 to maximize efficiency
1. Foot Stomp/Step Up > Duck > RMB(Rock Away) > Kidney Blow > Overcharge
2. Foot Stomp/Step Up > Duck > RMB(Rock Away) > Flying Knee Kick > Overcharge
3. Step-Up > BeatDown > Overcharge

#1 and #2 is used because I have epic AS plate
#3 is basically filler, because Kidney Blow and Flying Knee Kick have longer CD, and beat down has half of the CD of the both.

Yeah... overheat is basically... useless lol.

EDIT :
Whoops, forgot to mention rockaway in between.

Edited by fourrier, 29 December 2015 - 10:29 AM.


#47 Haru18

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 11:20 PM

View Postfourrier, on 28 December 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

Finally, got to taste some abyss dungeon.
And I have to say, in term of efficiency, forget about ducking to another skill line.

I basically have 3 overcharge pattern and I just rotate these 3 to maximize efficiency
1. FootStomp/Step Up > Duck > Kidney Blow > Overcharge
2. FootStomp/Step Up > Duck > Flying Knee Kick > Overcharge
3. Step-Up > BeatDown > Overcharge

#1 and #2 is used because I have epic AS plate
#3 is basically filler, because Kidney Blow and Flying Knee Kick have longer CD, and beat down has half of the CD of the both.

Yeah... overheat is basically... useless lol.

Kidney has 20s CD, knee has 12s CD and BD has 11s CD
from the skill you listed only kidney has quite a long cd

Ducking to another skill line is performed because the target hasn't die if you just do dungeon ofc the shorter combination work better (:])

Edited by Haru18, 28 December 2015 - 11:21 PM.


#48 fourrier

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 11:35 PM

View PostHaru18, on 28 December 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

Kidney has 20s CD, knee has 12s CD and BD has 11s CD
from the skill you listed only kidney has quite a long cd

Ducking to another skill line is performed because the target hasn't die if you just do dungeon ofc the shorter combination work better (:])
No, I use those routine on boss as well. I feel it's better because it has less restriction on moving around compared to chaining to ducking (prone to errors).

#49 Vicnes

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 05:11 AM

wats the coefficient for flow through ex max hit?

#50 Xenocho

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 05:20 AM

View Postfourrier, on 28 December 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

Finally, got to taste some abyss dungeon.
And I have to say, in term of efficiency, forget about ducking to another skill line.

I basically have 3 overcharge pattern and I just rotate these 3 to maximize efficiency
1. FootStomp/Step Up > Duck > Kidney Blow > Overcharge
2. FootStomp/Step Up > Duck > Flying Knee Kick > Overcharge
3. Step-Up > BeatDown > Overcharge

#1 and #2 is used because I have epic AS plate
#3 is basically filler, because Kidney Blow and Flying Knee Kick have longer CD, and beat down has half of the CD of the both.

Yeah... overheat is basically... useless lol.

Why do you duck after using gear step before follow-up with skill? Does the skill receive Command Enhancement bonus damage this way?

#51 melonee

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 05:24 AM

View PostXenocho, on 29 December 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

Why do you duck after using gear step before follow-up with skill? Does the skill receive Command Enhancement bonus damage this way?

Slightly shorter skill animation of the skill you chained into after ducking i assume

edit:
nvm i just saw he uses ducking after the gear step skills and before the command enhancement...

Edited by melonee, 29 December 2015 - 05:26 AM.


#52 Feel

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 08:12 AM

Would it be wise to drop Wallop in order to make my BtW level 17 (Currently at 14)?

EDIT: This is for my pure PvE Ruina

Edited by Feel, 29 December 2015 - 08:12 AM.


#53 fourrier

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 09:12 AM

View PostXenocho, on 29 December 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

Why do you duck after using gear step before follow-up with skill? Does the skill receive Command Enhancement bonus damage this way?
Just about habit.
The steam collection method I usually use is Foot Stomp and repeat Duck > Rock Away.
And the other reasons are Foot Stomp have decent AoE, shorter casting time than Rock Away, Duck has iframe, and Rock Away via duck has iframe too.

EDIT :
Oh my bad, I forgot to put Rock Away before Flying Knee Kick and Kidney Blow, sorry about that.

Edited by fourrier, 29 December 2015 - 10:29 AM.


#54 Haru18

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 10:24 AM

View PostFeel, on 29 December 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

Would it be wise to drop Wallop in order to make my BtW level 17 (Currently at 14)?

EDIT: This is for my pure PvE Ruina

No it's like our version of power tumble so if you want to squeeze some SP try for something else like flow up, follow through, gear step

#55 fourrier

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 11:16 AM

Re : Damage transfer on Flow Up (EX)

I hate to upload my own video, so I must be thankful someone do the detail video like this (credits to this NA player)
https://youtu.be/WBlfA5hnhlU

As you can see there, the Beat Down damage is similar to what I've reported earlier
his number on Beat Down is 5342,
followed by normal attack 5934x3 and followed by 7122 launching kick and 4451 per hit on overcharge. Perfect. We are playing the same version of the game.

But look at the last test on Flow up EX,
the knuckle hit is 5361 hit each, BUT
the following normal hit is 2383x3, followed by 2860 launching kick, and 1787 overcharge hit.

While the left click sequence has consistent proportion (1.333x3, 1.6, then 1 repating), it's definitely weird here since overcharge here only accounts for 40% of the Flow up EX hit damage (without considering the Command Enhancement's 20% boost, of course).
I wonder if Flying Knee Kick and Kidney Blow have different damage transfer.
Hmmm.... gotta test that later. (tense)

EDIT :
One of the guide in NA forum have the coefficient listed half of mine (0.666x3, 0.8, then 0.5 for OC hit)
Either I'm horribly mistaken somewhere here, or ... well, they haven't done the re-check job enough.
Is it incorrect to use have Beat Down last hit damage as 100% ?

Also, in that guide still use Command Enhancement damage boost to be 50%.
I haven't tried the details yet on PvE, but the tooltip in our version shows the number to be 20% instead of 50% in both PvP and PvE.

EDIT 2 :
OK, it seems I may be wrong on 1.333x3, 1.6, and 1 coefficient. and he might be right with 0.666x3, 0.8, and 0.5 for OC. I need to do proper check later.

Edited by fourrier, 29 December 2015 - 12:19 PM.


#56 iKissa

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:18 PM

View Postfourrier, on 29 December 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

EDIT :
One of the guide in NA forum have the coefficient listed half of mine (0.666x3, 0.8, then 0.5 for OC hit)
Either I'm horribly mistaken somewhere here, or ... well, they haven't done the re-check job enough.
Is it incorrect to use have Beat Down last hit damage as 100% ?

Also, in that guide still use Command Enhancement damage boost to be 50%.
I haven't tried the details yet on PvE, but the tooltip in our version shows the number to be 20% instead of 50% in both PvP and PvE.
Regarding this, I'm not sure how much Damage Boost from Command Enhancement in SEA but if it's 20% then the Coefficient of Damage Transfer should be 0.666 one (prolly doubled for Ruina, since i haven't tested it on Ruina so i'm not sure). At least that's what i tried on PvE.
https://youtu.be/JxLJvVlWVHc

Edited by iKissa, 29 December 2015 - 12:34 PM.


#57 Haru18

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:33 PM

View Postfourrier, on 29 December 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

EDIT :
One of the guide in NA forum have the coefficient listed half of mine (0.666x3, 0.8, then 0.5 for OC hit)
Either I'm horribly mistaken somewhere here, or ... well, they haven't done the re-check job enough.
Is it incorrect to use have Beat Down last hit damage as 100% ?

Also, in that guide still use Command Enhancement damage boost to be 50%.
I haven't tried the details yet on PvE, but the tooltip in our version shows the number to be 20% instead of 50% in both PvP and PvE.


I read somewhere that the 50% CE effect only happen on Ruina's EX skill (not just NA server) It could be relic of the past that haven't changed correctly or ruina's EX secretly giving buff to CE. So it won't be surprising if we have the same 50% CE on ruina's Ex

#58 kambinks

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:38 PM

The 50% command enhancement is probably the pre revamped version. Heres mine in cDN that haven't gotten the new Machina revamp yet (for some annoying reason (T.T) ).

Posted Image

Edit: M1000090489 is knee kick

I don't really get the Follow UP EX part? Different coefficient with beatdown?

Edited by kambinks, 29 December 2015 - 12:48 PM.


#59 Haru18

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:42 PM

What I meant in my previous post is the actual value increased is 50% despite they write 20% in skill description seems like another "Hidden Mechanic of Machina" like we don't have enough "hidden mechanic" already (:D) (:D)

#60 kambinks

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 12:50 PM

Nah.. its part of the revamp

http://www.freedompl...ator-elestra/3/

50% > 20%

Edited by kambinks, 29 December 2015 - 12:51 PM.