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Pvp General Chatter


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#121 TobyTakeda

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 10:47 AM

View PostJAVY, on 08 December 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

the interesting what? (oo;)

Many things... for example the fact that now both specializations(except engeeners and priests) are so different of the other 2nd specs. In the other caps was both more similar, now have got more differences in the skills that they use and special skills (:D)  And are even so cool (:[)

#122 TobyTakeda

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 10:48 AM

View PostMuchAshe, on 14 December 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

Ladder is not PvP, please don't do this...

It is, okay that the gear count as much, but you can't be the number 1 if the difference between your class and others it's so much, no?

#123 GoldenSol

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 11:41 PM

The only reason Redhue has been #1 in Ladder for the past few level caps is because he's the only PvPer that actually cared about Ladder, and hardly any PvPers take Ladder seriously in the first place because gear matters there. Being #1 in Ladder means nothing if you're the only one that bothered to do it.

No offense to Redhue, but he isn't anything special skill-wise. I was on a Lv85 pre-buff Glad with Lv1 Hacking Stance and no Line Drive INS, and he was constantly instant dropping out of my combos, and he still only managed to win 1 or 2 matches out of around 10 matches (no rules / selfbans).
I didn't complain about his instant dropping at the time because I didn't want to ruin his fun while we were PvPing, but I didn't think he would use the results of our matches to ego about "trading wins" against me. Winning 1 match VS me out of 10 matches isn't "trading wins" against me, especially when I'm at a disadvantage.

As for AWK skills, Toby already said it. Most new skills past 90 cap are unreactable, untankable, unescapable and easy catch skills with no weaknesses to punish, which takes out the complexity and skill factor DN PvP used to have. The game pretty much encourages spamming now, which tends to put the serious PvPers off.
If this kind of PvP is your cup of tea though Toby, who am I to stop you? It's not like I can force you to change your opinion.

Again Redhue, I don't have anything against you, I just wanted to get some things straight.

Edited by GoldenSol, 14 December 2016 - 11:44 PM.


#124 RobinX95

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 08:31 AM

I don't know what you're talking about. I do not lag. ^ _ ^"
gg ^ _ ^"

^ _ ^"

Edited by RobinX95, 15 December 2016 - 08:31 AM.


#125 TobyTakeda

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 11:43 AM

View PostGoldenSol, on 14 December 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

The only reason Redhue has been #1 in Ladder for the past few level caps is because he's the only PvPer that actually cared about Ladder, and hardly any PvPers take Ladder seriously in the first place because gear matters there. Being #1 in Ladder means nothing if you're the only one that bothered to do it.

I know that in the previous caps(cap 90 and the end of cap 80) no one played the ladder and for this reason he becomed 1st without rivals in that ranking but now there are and he is still the first :)

View PostGoldenSol, on 14 December 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

No offense to Redhue, but he isn't anything special skill-wise. I was on a Lv85 pre-buff Glad with Lv1 Hacking Stance and no Line Drive INS, and he was constantly instant dropping out of my combos, and he still only managed to win 1 or 2 matches out of around 10 matches (no rules / selfbans).
I didn't complain about his instant dropping at the time because I didn't want to ruin his fun while we were PvPing, but I didn't think he would use the results of our matches to ego about "trading wins" against me. Winning 1 match VS me out of 10 matches isn't "trading wins" against me, especially when I'm at a disadvantage.

I saw some of his matches in the ladder, and he doesn't seems weak, i don't know how his class have to fight, becouse i played always only Saint, but... some counters and combination of attacks to make an open make me to think that he is enaugh skilled. I don't know what happened the day when you fought him, but there are somedays that i haven't sleep or are many days that i don't play pvp and play only pve or even that i don't play the game and to fight in pvp with the same skills as always become so difficult ;)

View PostGoldenSol, on 14 December 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

As for AWK skills, Toby already said it. Most new skills past 90 cap are unreactable, untankable, unescapable and easy catch skills with no weaknesses to punish, which takes out the complexity and skill factor DN PvP used to have. The game pretty much encourages spamming now, which tends to put the serious PvPers off.
If this kind of PvP is your cup of tea though Toby, who am I to stop you? It's not like I can force you to change your opinion.

I think that is the awekening fault, i think that is one of the things that the devs tough to make the pvp more simple, this changed some pvp basis, for luck, in my class nothing is changed in that direction. Teorically, full awekened can be a good spammer with 2 shock of relics(holy burst awk + shock of relic), the awkening of explosive grand cross, and the awekening of the lightning relic with mini relics, but aren't obbligatories things to be strong like in other classes and some have got some disavantages this is the reason becouse i have got only the awekening of the Great Heal. For me no matter how the classes of the opponents are, the important it's my character, my character have got almost the same build of cap 90 and for me it's enaugh to make me fun (hat) Rather, if the opponent are have got something new it's better for me. In realty something changed, i get 2 skills, "Blessing Sing" and "Antiphonary Pool" both 2 so cool (oo) When i cast "Blessing Sign" the kid that's in me being excited (:D) It's like my character are giving the final hit and saying <<Owari da>>(this is the end) before attack with only his aura power, sooo coooool (:[) (love) (clap)  Yes, for me it's a cup of tea (:])

#126 chunyee

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 12:29 PM

You can't expect players that only play priest to understand PVP...... Speaking this as a cleric main and priest's perspective is too different from other classes

#127 GoldenSol

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 05:00 PM

The problem with Ladder is that it rewards superior gear more over superior mechanical skill or gameplay; it's not a true contest of whoever is more skilled or plays better. This is why most actual PvPers don't take Ladder seriously.

Redhue's skill choices and decision making would be considered average compared to most other DN regions; the only reason he's considered "good" in DNEU is because DNEU's average skill level in PvP is garbage af.
Again, he's the only PvPer in DNEU that bothered to gear up with +13 L-Grades and full 3rd stats for Ladder, which is the only reason he's #1 in Ladder despite being average skill-wise. If I bothered to put that much time and effort into gearing up to that extent for Ladder, I would easily take that top spot from him if he doesn't improve drastically.

Edited by GoldenSol, 15 December 2016 - 05:08 PM.


#128 ZeroYami

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 01:38 AM

View PostGoldenSol, on 15 December 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

The problem with Ladder is that it rewards superior gear more over superior mechanical skill or gameplay; it's not a true contest of whoever is more skilled or plays better. This is why most actual PvPers don't take Ladder seriously.

Redhue's skill choices and decision making would be considered average compared to most other DN regions; the only reason he's considered "good" in DNEU is because DNEU's average skill level in PvP is garbage af.
Again, he's the only PvPer in DNEU that bothered to gear up with +13 L-Grades and full 3rd stats for Ladder, which is the only reason he's #1 in Ladder despite being average skill-wise. If I bothered to put that much time and effort into gearing up to that extent for Ladder, I would easily take that top spot from him if he doesn't improve drastically.

Wouldn't you say it's a combination of both equipment and skill. You stated Redhue "isn't anything special skill-wise," so would that mean that a well equipped and skilled PvPer would actually do a lot better?

So, could we also state, that if PvPers would actually put in some effort into character building (more) than they are currently doing they could stop complaining about Ladder?

#129 GoldenSol

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 02:47 AM

View PostZeroYami, on 16 December 2016 - 01:38 AM, said:

Wouldn't you say it's a combination of both equipment and skill. You stated Redhue "isn't anything special skill-wise," so would that mean that a well equipped and skilled PvPer would actually do a lot better?

So, could we also state, that if PvPers would actually put in some effort into character building (more) than they are currently doing they could stop complaining about Ladder?

@Question 1: It's a combination of both, but the person with superior equipment has far more room for mistakes compared to their opponent. And yes, that's exactly what I mean, if Redhue doesn't improve skill-wise. His gameplay is very basic atm.

@Question 2: You don't get my point.
"The problem with Ladder is that it rewards superior gear more over superior mechanical skill or gameplay; it's not a true contest of whoever is more skilled or plays better. This is why most actual PvPers don't take Ladder seriously."

Edited by GoldenSol, 16 December 2016 - 02:53 AM.


#130 Dargunz

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 03:44 AM

No offense, but the main reason that Redhue is #1 on Ladder, is because gear matters a TON at Ladder. Did you forget already that he has full +13 IDN L armor and +13 Leica L with heavy secondary gear (tons of 3rd stats, etc). It's near impossible to beat a player whom's utility went sky high due to immobilize, immobilize resist, stun stats growing massively.

And at Yami you don't need a lot of skill to do well at Ladder if you use IDN L gear. This gear gives you face-roll grade utility and defense. The lower amount of HP is not going to matter if opponents do 3 times less damage to you with IDN L than when you are wearing RDN L gear.

Edited by Dargunz, 16 December 2016 - 03:53 AM.


#131 MuchAshe

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 07:29 AM

View PostDargunz, on 16 December 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

And at Yami you don't need a lot of skill to do well at Ladder if you use IDN L gear. This gear gives you face-roll grade utility and defense. The lower amount of HP is not going to matter if opponents do 3 times less damage to you with IDN L than when you are wearing RDN L gear.

Now give me my Diamond 1 Title (:&gt;)

#132 TobyTakeda

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:44 AM

View Postchunyee, on 15 December 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

You can't expect players that only play priest to understand PVP...... Speaking this as a cleric main and priest's perspective is too different from other classes

Sound like an insult :mellow:  What's the problem of the clerics?

View PostGoldenSol, on 16 December 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

@Question 1: It's a combination of both, but the person with superior equipment has far more room for mistakes compared to their opponent. @Question 2: You don't get my point. "The problem with Ladder is that it rewards superior gear more over superior mechanical skill or gameplay; it's not a true contest of whoever is more skilled or plays better. This is why most actual PvPers don't take Ladder seriously."

I think the same as you. The gap of the gears, it's the reason becouse since now i didn't play ladder. I tried it with a mine side character with +10 lv80 gear in the cap 90, but 2 strong hits were enaugh to kill me... I don't wanna lie, i projecting to partecipate to the ladder with a pvp gear(if can permict me to survive at least to 3 attacks xD), but i sicerly dislike so much the fact that the ranked pvp is with the gear and that the gear gap it's so much. (cool)  In the cap 90 there was the ladder balanced(without gear), but for some reasons no one played it, even before that the normal ladder(with gear) being inactive too.  

View PostGoldenSol, on 14 December 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

The only reason Redhue has been #1 in Ladder for the past few level caps is because he's the only PvPer that actually cared about Ladder, and hardly any PvPers take Ladder seriously in the first place because gear matters there. Being #1 in Ladder means nothing if you're the only one that bothered to do it. No offense to Redhue, but he isn't anything special skill-wise.  

View PostDargunz, on 16 December 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

No offense, but the main reason that Redhue is #1 on Ladder, is because gear matters a TON at Ladder.


My example about RedHue don't was to say "RedHue it's the best pvp player of Europe", specially becouse i don't know the real strong of players like Arcar, DragunZ, GoldenSol, Torinto, Sorabell or even RedHue to say that... The reason was to say that the Awekenings don't make a strong player. The awekenings aren't skills that if you aren't an awekened player you will can't even fight for the gap. Okay, maybe RedHue it's not the number 1 like the Ladder Ranking says, but doesn't matter; the question was "Can a non awekened player have got almost the same chances to win a fight vs an awkened player with the same skill or will be a massacre in any case?" and the fact that, in the most part of ladder fights, he is superior of his opponents, can give a reply to this; i didn't appoint him to other reasons like debate about the reason becouse he i the number 1 in ladder; i appointed him becouse he is famous, but i could appoint an another player that was able to fight with awekened players without have got it like Arcar; before the coming of the awekenings, i saw some balanced fights with an awekened Gladiator, that some days after, thanks of youtube, i noticed that it was a sub character of GoldenSol. :o This to say that the talent in the end makes a strong player, when you have learned how that skills works and how to counter, okay the awekened player have got some chances more becouse he have got some skills more and some enhaments for his skils but the gap isn't enaugh big to make the awk player winner before fight. This is my opinion, i said it again to explayin why the example of RedHue (up)


#133 chunyee

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 11:36 AM

View PostTobyTakeda, on 19 December 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

What's the problem of the clerics?
Normal players :
"Must not get hit at all"

Priest players :
"I will get hit anyway, better think of what to do before my aerial evasion is off cooldown"

Need I say more?

#134 TobyTakeda

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 11:57 PM

View Postchunyee, on 19 December 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

Normal players :
"Must not get hit at all"

Priest players :
"I will get hit anyway, better think of what to do before my aerial evasion is off cooldown"

Need I say more?

It's not right at all, i worry to take hits by anyone. (oo) Can't win if i block the hits with my face xD My class, even tough that have got "Great Heal" and "Block" don't have got iframes(except the standards sliding step, counter blow and aerial evasion)  if i get taken in combo for me it's difficult to escape without take so much damage... You can say "have got counter blow and cure relic ex as evasions" but don't means that it's impossible to being taken in combo or that means that can be able to take the distance again. Another thing, the hits of a DPS class deal the same or more damage than my heal and somethimes are in iframe(Hurricane Dance for example). No matter the class, to win in pvp, need to don't take hits :wacko:

But wanna talk about the other classes? (:&gt;)

The assassins and the kalis are so speed in the movements, DPS classes(okay now don't have got the awk, but will it's the nature of the class), so easy to take in combo the enemy and to continue the combo, many evasions and some spec can even heal or have got a good area of effect.

Sorceress and academics, DPS classes, very big AOE, very good crowd control(the physician even an unbelivable crowd control), middle range, can debuff the speed of the enemy, can't heal(except for the physician)and haven't got many iframes but have got ways to run away(except physician) or speed decrease the distance between they and theyr enemy(except engeeners and the physician).

Machina and Acrobat(Tempest and Walker), maybe the speedest and agile classes in Dragon Nest, low AOE, melee classes, DPS classes, many iframes, have got both iframes and easy ways to increase and decrease speedly the distance with theyr opponenent and even skills that permict to move in speed in iframe, some spec have got theyr main attack as iframe and ignoring the enemy superarmors(defensio and tempest), can easily take in combo the enemy and easily make a combo.

Bow masters(sniper and sentinel) and silver hunter, DPS classes, best range in the game, speed classes, many iframes, have got attacks with a very long range that can even follow the enemy, have got skills that permict to take the distance easily and speedy also with iframe.

Okay now i'm tired to continue xD But the moral of the story is that the cleric aren't the perfect invincible class that is used only by noobs (no) Both classes have got theyr iframes, evasions and the classes that don't have got it's becouse theyr class don't need becouse it's already enaugh strong in AOE and/or DMGs and/or Range and/or speed and/or Crowd Control. Ah and no one can tank with the face and win. If the opponent use his main damages during a superarmor buff like "Block" it's different, but in that case it's not thanks of the super armor, it's the fault of the opponent that wasted his main damage like that. (bow)

Edited by TobyTakeda, 20 December 2016 - 12:01 AM.


#135 Peomguy

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:38 PM

Well the best pvp players left this game. Dead pvp.

Edited by Peomguy, 22 February 2017 - 09:39 PM.


#136 TobyTakeda

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 10:07 PM

Don't worry, Toby is still here (tongueout)

#137 Quize

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 11:28 PM

Hello.

#138 yazu

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 09:48 AM

View PostQuize, on 12 April 2017 - 11:28 PM, said:

Hello.
ayy fellow archer.