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A Cheesy Guardian Guide


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#1 Schiz

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 09:33 AM

Introduction

The guardian is currently one of the most useful classes in DN, does not require large amounts of gold to build effectively, and has a fairly unique gameplay being the only "pure" tank in the game (Destroyer revamp might change things, but there's still nothing as reliable as Guardian Force and it's more of a dmg boost on destro than a tanking capability boost anyway).

Pros:
- Excellent raw movement speed (not mobility, just flat out raw walking speed)
- Highly demanded class in raids
- Low budget
- Easy to learn the ropes of the class to be useful in a party
- Unique gameplay (plenty of people find it awesome)

Cons:
- Low damage and low damage potential even when very well geared as opposed to T4
- Not the ideal class for soloing/farming
- High responsability in raids (it's not hard, but if you fail at it your party members will drop one by one)
- Unique gameplay (plenty of people find it boring)

The unique part comes both from your role and your playstyle. Instead of constantly DPSing while occasionally dropping your support skills like most classes, you're pretty much always focused on keeping the aggro of the boss and making sure the boss is where you want it to be, facing the direction you want it to face, so that your party does the most DPS. This is especially crucial when your main source of DPS is a class like Gear Master or Inquisitor since they benefit from your help tremendously. The other equally important aspect of Guardian's gameplay consists in blocking attacks rather than dodging, on purpose more often than not, in order to gain bubbles to cast Guardian Force for yourself and your party and always have some extra bubbles in case it needs to be refreshed prematurely. A selfish, wannabe DPS saint or physician barely get punished in raid until stuff goes really wrong, while a selfish guardian is what makes stuff go really wrong in the first place.


This is made even more true by the fact that, while every single support class in the game can optimize their DPS without hindering their support capabilities much, with only a few exceptions, Guardian suffers greatly from that, as your main damage per second skill uses up bubbles that are required to cast the far more important Guardian Force. So while Guardian's solo DPS might be ok, in raids you will always keep most of your bubbles for Guardian Force, which will reduce your DPS "rotation" down to literally ONE skill, everything else being much much weaker.

This is mostly why you might, or might not want to play a Guardian in my opinion.


Going to start with a base build, then analyze the skills in detail. Detailed skill builds will come up later.


The basic build (PvE)

https://dnmaze.com/g...0---0--00--00--

This is the core of any Guardian build. Spare SP can be adapted to customize it depending on your needs. Some skills that are not taken will be pretty much a requirement for a raid focused build, while for nesting and farming, you get to spend your points pretty much any way you like.


Cleric skill tree
Spoiler


Paladin skill tree
Spoiler


Guardian skill tree

Spoiler


Solo / Nest / Farming build

https://dnmaze.com/g...0---0--00--00--


This build focuses on damage without sacrificing much of the utility. Can get higher level SoF by lowering either Smite to 11 or not taking some kicks on the cleric tree. This is my personal preference on SoF level, can be adapted to your needs. Provoke can also be lowered 1-2 levels if needed, since max level is only really crucial in raids.

The point of this build is to add some extra DPS to an otherwise poor rotation (how can you call "click Justice Crash" a rotation) with Charged Bolt, and some extra burst with Thor's Hammer for times when you know you won't be using DA.

RDN build

https://dnmaze.com/g...0---0--00--00--

Lowered Charged Bolt for lv6 Direct Kick.
Removed Thor's Hammer in exchange for Heal.
Possible to still get lv26 Charged Bolt by:
- removing 2 points off Smite
- removing dive kick
- removing 1 point off Mental Mastery

Not recommended as in RDN the instant burst damage of Smite is more valuable than the constant DPS provided by Charged Bolt.

Alternatives

For both builds, mostly if you're one of those that don't like Charged Bolt
Sacred hammering can be brought to lv11
Direct kick can be maxed
Nothing else is even worth considering as far as damage is concerned

PvP builds

Keep in mind that although I have a decent amount of experience in paladin pvp "in theory", I'm a terrible pvp player and I do it mostly as not competitive entertainment with friends. Moreover, I have done ZERO guardian pvp in t5. So take this with a grain of salt. Let's start with re-analyzing some of the skills:

Spoiler

SB Build

https://dnmaze.com/g...0---0--0---00--

Lots of customization here. The maxed skills outside JC and Smite are purely up to personal preference.
Can get Holy Bolt to 25+1 if you really want.
Can get Divine Ascension and Vengeance I guess, I generally don't use them in SB

Ladder / Group / General purpose build

https://dnmaze.com/g...0---0--00--00--

Added block, SoF and buffs. Taken points off various skills but again they can be arranged to fit your own playstyle since each player will find himself using this or that skill for damage and this or that skill for utility.
Optimizing any pvp build is a matter of trial and error and personal experience.

Gear [Work in progress]

Gearing a Guardian might not be as simple as one could believe if one wants to achieve at least *some* DPS without sacrificing your support and tank role. Starting with a brief overlook at:

Guardian's main stats
Spoiler


The poor man's gear
Spoiler

The HP build
Spoiler

DPS / Solo / Farming / Build
Spoiler

Techniques
Not recommended at the moment, 90 accessories or RDNL work better even on "dps" build. However if you want, the only necklace option is Smite, as for Earrings, Heal is alright. Rings, Justice Crash then Divine Ascension/Provoke/Stance of Faith.

Stat Heraldries

Bear, Destruction, Health, Life, Wind, Fatals, Shining, Tent. Optional 3rd slots: Ultimate, Attack/Defense, Defense/Wise (Extra int = extra magic def)

Skill Heraldries

Mandatory:
- Justice Crash CD

Up to playstyle (ordered by personal preference, first three are what I use):
- Block CD
- Provoke CD
- Divine Ascension DMG (Helps in DPS checks such as jasmine bar mech in RDN)
- Tumble MP recovery (Can save you in prolonged fights when stuff goes wrong)
- Divine Punishment duration (quite awesome for soloing, dailies etc. and imo a must for any solo build)
- Divine Avatar duration
- Half-turn Kick / Direct Kick Action speed
- Stance of Faith duration
- Smite DMG
- Charged Bolt DMG
- Guardian Force duration

Edited by Schiz, 07 April 2016 - 12:09 PM.


#2 Theoderich

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 06:09 PM

Quote

- Lightning Zap
Moderate damage, high CD. Purely physical as Guardian. Upcoming revamps will change this skill's CD to 21 seconds so it could be viable as filler in the future, but not right now. Mostly taken at lv1.

Sorry to inform you that you are wrong here. Paladin skills are not converted to the new system (they are the only skills that stay in the old system of T1-4) because they are of physical,magical or mixed nature. When you check the skill descriptions, you can find [in contrast to other classes or the Cleric skills that state "attack" and thus oriented at your highest attack value] the description featuring "physical attack" and "magical attack". So while skills like Armor Break, Shield Charge, Divine Ascension, Divine Vengeance are purely physical attacks, Lightning Zap always is fixed magic attack, the other skills are mixed patk/matk.

As a Guardian thus, this skill is completely useless garbage, because the Guard doesn't have decent matk anyway.

Quote

- Mental Mastery
Increases your max MP. Must max, both Auras drain your MP quite fast and the MP/sec is based off your base MP
You know that the Auras drain based in % of max MP, so having higher Max MP does increase the drain rate of said Auras. Too bad I cannot compare the regeneration between my Crusader and Guard right now because the p-window info seems bugged (shows 1 + 0 MP reg rate), but I highly doubt that increasing the max MP increases the MP reg rate, and even if it does, I don't think it will outreg the increased drain rate.

Edited by Theoderich, 19 March 2016 - 06:24 PM.


#3 Pallalol

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 06:47 PM

View PostSchiz, on 19 March 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

- Low damage and low damage potential even when very well geared as opposed to T4

Mr cheese you have to smash the ground harder with you head and here is the dps.
Nice guide btw.

#4 Schiz

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 08:59 PM

Zap is indeed always magical, guess leaving it at 1 and never bothering to check made me think otherwise. That makes it like, the only skill in the game that does that?

As for auras I guess I'll rephrase

MP consumption of auras is based off your mp so if you have more MP it eats slightly more. however MP consumption of all the other skills is a fixed amount, so for those, larger mana pool helps. In raid, anything from Healing Relic EX to Replicatron items will heal your MP for more the more base MP you have.

#5 Jasel

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 11:31 PM

Well lighning zap toggles electrocuted state, which some other classes may make use to. I personally have it in the second skill bar in order to electrocute krudelis fragments and that kind of stuff (never bothered to max it tho, level 1 is more than enough). And about canceling SOF with the weapon removal, its a rather fast process once you get used to it, so I just max that skill. To deal with MP loss due to auras, I use a skill plate for sliding step which recovers 3k MP every time I dodge, which is great.

#6 Schiz

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 01:37 AM

Electrocution only helps Inquisitors deal extra damage, but they tend to have their own rotation with detonate so it's not really a factor.

It still does ok damage at 1, I use it whenever it's on CD if I have absolutely nothing better to do.

Its best use in RDN is at DK, since it can help priests out. Even then, during that scenario your first priority is to ensure GF is up so that whatever class can try to cancel it will not get flinched.

For anything else, electrocution doesn't do much. Sliding Step MP recovery is a good option at the obvious cost of a plate slot that could be used on something else. Haven't gotten to gear and plates / techs yet due to limited free time.

#7 Jasel

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 04:33 AM

Well I never said I used zap for something else than to be annoying to the bosses. And, about auto block and aerial block, notice that jumping when trapped in some mechanic can save your live. For instance, red balls ex, i made the test and yes, if you start with GF on and begin to jump in the middle of the mechanic, you get random blocks and Aerial blocks that basically allow you to survive it with a fair chunk of health left (I assume a guardian would be more than 3M HP to do that). There's not a lot of people abusing aerial block, but it's almost 1/3 chance to block. I personally do not recommend this, as you can have 100% shield uptime while safely on the floor, but if by some miracle you get caught off guard (buff wipe, SOF in cooldown) you can either dodge or do the jumpy jump thing.

About the guide itself: nice job giving this insight into this class. Fortunately, I'm the type who likes the unique gameplay. It's important to know your role in a party, and DPSing can be done effectively with other classes.

I want to ask a question too:

I recurrently see threads insisting in the importance of magic defense on a guardian. If this is true, why don't they use INT jades instead of STR ones? I would not do that, as it would ruin my solo potential and I have more important stuff in which to spend my golds, but would it be viable in a raid environment?

Edited by Jasel, 20 March 2016 - 04:37 AM.


#8 Pallalol

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 07:42 AM

View PostJasel, on 20 March 2016 - 04:33 AM, said:

I recurrently see threads insisting in the importance of magic defense on a guardian. If this is true, why don't they use INT jades instead of STR ones? I would not do that, as it would ruin my solo potential and I have more important stuff in which to spend my golds, but would it be viable in a raid environment?

If you are asking about RDN no that's absolutely useless, you can reach the pdef and mdef cap with epic 90 gear .

#9 Schiz

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 10:53 AM

My guardian runs with full BDNL and fairly low def and m.def and I never died in HC because of "not enough def". Died to failed mechanics but never because I took too much of a beating. you have permanent dmg reduction from your passive + toughness, blocks, iron will, DA, divine ascension iframe abuse and countless other things to tank that the only thing depleting your HP will be burn ticks if you play properly.

The only issue with low m.def is six balls at stage 2 if you screw up, everything else involving m.def you're supposed to dodge it or block it as you're not required on any other instance to take magical hits for the safety of your party. If anything, physical hits are far more common especially at DK and even more so at dragon where you are supposed to "facetank" quite literally in order to not have the boss turn around much and give your party an easier time DPSing.

Magic damage is mostly stuff like permanent mines at jasmine, permanent red area, red ball and so on. you're not meant to sit there and tank those with raw defense as it doesn't benefit anyone to do so.

Capped defenses do make you pretty much immortal but honestly, when you can and often must block most attacks, they're not as important as in other support classes. If anything, I'd rather keep my BDNL and 3m+ HP and give extra fat guardian force to my party.

#10 Jasel

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 04:16 PM

Just point out that guardian force is supposed to be bugged, so it uses the receiver's HP instead of yours to calculate the barrier, which sucks because my barrier would be more than 800k HP and it looks as if it was a lot less for my party mates. But ye, capped defense and bulk make you immortal. Only time you die is on party wipes IF they manage to kill you, which is not always the case (ty, shield charge, everyone loves you).

#11 Rokes

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 04:26 PM

View PostJasel, on 20 March 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Just point out that guardian force is supposed to be bugged, so it uses the receiver's HP instead of yours to calculate the barrier, which sucks because my barrier would be more than 800k HP and it looks as if it was a lot less for my party mates. But ye, capped defense and bulk make you immortal. Only time you die is on party wipes IF they manage to kill you, which is not always the case (ty, shield charge, everyone loves you).

Well its just that devs cant code **** and Afaik it not getting changed, stacking HP doesnt do **** for party's Guardian Force.


Point about using Lgrades in RDN is pretty valid since if you play properly and manage your bubles, you can pretty much deal the damage of a subDPS class, though its not advised for less experienced Guardians. By playing agressive, I have reached 3 Bill Damage in normal and have seen people do 7 or so in hardcore. Not like it matters tho

#12 Schiz

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Posted 07 April 2016 - 12:29 PM

Updated. Kinda done for now although I might have forgot something, if you have questions or suggestions or corrections or want me to talk about something specific feel free to let me know

#13 Schiz

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Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:34 AM

Small update just to say that with the new techs system coupled with paladin's small dmg boost on some skill, smite lv13+1 is definitely good damage and a must even on support oriented builds. There's nothing else to put techs on in the necklace slot anyway and again, on a support build you most likely want the vitality/defense 90 techs provide (better than healthy/shining/tent 90A necklaces)

#14 Jasel

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Posted 27 May 2016 - 12:08 AM

Quick question: Is guardian force going to be fixed, or is that mere speculation?

#15 WilliamWelldone

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Posted 14 June 2016 - 12:33 AM

It's my personal build if you need ^^
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