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Ruina Skill Plates


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#21 Weapon7

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 03:30 PM

it's too early in the morning and i'm tired as nemo, but i hope i still get it (kinda(semi)) right. considering this being still update.

AGI difference from 90earrings+jade to 80techearings+jade=2310
Considering plate+9wind jades and stat buffs from customes and stuff (Argenta/Velksud Set 2%+Custome Weapons 4%+Argenta/Velskud accs 2%) -> 2310*1.54=3557.4
e.g. Overclock buff 3557.4*1.3=4624.62
e.g. 0.75ATK per AGI -> 4624.62*0.75=3468.465
+plate and class mastery e.g. Ruina mastery II + ATK buffs from customes and stuff (Argenta/Velksud Set 3.5%+Custome Weapons 2%+Argenta/Velskud tail 3%+Spark 3%)-> 3468.465*1.345=4665.085425 ~4.7k ATk

@150k this is above 3% perma ATK increase

So let's assume 150k as like base atk
32.67% as base EleATK (title 5%+custome rings 2x3%+decal 5%+3 jades 3x8.05%+2 tech rings 2x3.76%-15% ECJ)
Posted Image
And yeah too tired and lazy to find def values so let's assume 30%.

This should a simplified dm+g calculation excluding fd, crits, etc per skill:
(ATK * Skill ATK%) * (1 + EleATK % / 100) * (1 – MDEF % / 100) * (1 – Enemy EleRES % / 100)

Gonna exclude Skill ATK% and DEF to simplify it more for an overall comparison.
  • Stage 1:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: (sry assuming 5k atk increase cause too lazy to type 4.7k something)
      155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
  • Stage 2:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.85=174792.725
  • Stage 3:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
  • Stage 4:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
  • Stage 5:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.85=174792.725
  • Stage BD:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*1=204705
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*1=205638.5
    Stage 6:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
Ahh nvm all see too tired forgot to add the 2xPATK+EleRings which is rouhgly like 2x1312*1.345=3529,28
So yeah your ATK increase is roughly like 8194,365425 which is at around 150k atk ~5.5% increase
  • Stage 1:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
  • Stage 2:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.85=178175.81
  • Stage 3:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
  • Stage 4:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
  • Stage 5:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.85=178175.81
  • Stage BD:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*1=204705
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*1=209618.6
    Stage 6:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
This still favors overall ice slightly, but you could also just say you deal more dmg on 3 bosses and less dmg on 4 bosses with ice. If you find the lack in dmg on stage 1,3 and 4 too much, ice would be better.

But this is only for RDN. An overall DPS loss from around ~3% on paper.

Every 90 nest light/dark > ice by roughly 2.5%.

There might be ten thousand flaws in this calculations. So take nothing as granted.

#22 Aynix

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 07:41 PM

Its not 19,77% more dmg because you have less attack (oo;)

And for me, who hate 3rd boss in RDN, I would like to kill it as fast as possible (sorry)

Edited by Aynix, 11 April 2016 - 07:45 PM.


#23 MrZeul

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 08:21 PM

View PostWeapon7, on 11 April 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

it's too early in the morning and i'm tired as nemo, but i hope i still get it (kinda(semi)) right. considering this being still update.

AGI difference from 90earrings+jade to 80techearings+jade=2310
Considering plate+9wind jades and stat buffs from customes and stuff (Argenta/Velksud Set 2%+Custome Weapons 4%+Argenta/Velskud accs 2%) -> 2310*1.54=3557.4
e.g. Overclock buff 3557.4*1.3=4624.62
e.g. 0.75ATK per AGI -> 4624.62*0.75=3468.465
+plate and class mastery e.g. Ruina mastery II + ATK buffs from customes and stuff (Argenta/Velksud Set 3.5%+Custome Weapons 2%+Argenta/Velskud tail 3%+Spark 3%)-> 3468.465*1.345=4665.085425 ~4.7k ATk

@150k this is above 3% perma ATK increase

So let's assume 150k as like base atk
32.67% as base EleATK (title 5%+custome rings 2x3%+decal 5%+3 jades 3x8.05%+2 tech rings 2x3.76%-15% ECJ)
Posted Image
And yeah too tired and lazy to find def values so let's assume 30%.

This should a simplified dm+g calculation excluding fd, crits, etc per skill:
(ATK * Skill ATK%) * (1 + EleATK % / 100) * (1 – MDEF % / 100) * (1 – Enemy EleRES % / 100)

Gonna exclude Skill ATK% and DEF to simplify it more for an overall comparison.
  • Stage 1:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: (sry assuming 5k atk increase cause too lazy to type 4.7k something)
      155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
  • Stage 2:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.85=174792.725
  • Stage 3:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
  • Stage 4:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
  • Stage 5:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.85=174792.725
  • Stage BD:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*1=204705
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*1=205638.5
    Stage 6:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 155000*1.3267*0.7=143946.95
Ahh nvm all see too tired forgot to add the 2xPATK+EleRings which is rouhgly like 2x1312*1.345=3529,28
So yeah your ATK increase is roughly like 8194,365425 which is at around 150k atk ~5.5% increase
  • Stage 1:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
  • Stage 2:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.85=178175.81
  • Stage 3:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
  • Stage 4:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
  • Stage 5:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.85=173999.25
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.85=178175.81
  • Stage BD:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*1=204705
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*1=209618.6
    Stage 6:
    - ICE: 150000*1.3647*0.7=143293.5
    - LIGHT: 158000*1.3267*0.7=146733.02
This still favors overall ice slightly, but you could also just say you deal more dmg on 3 bosses and less dmg on 4 bosses with ice. If you find the lack in dmg on stage 1,3 and 4 too much, ice would be better.

But this is only for RDN. An overall DPS loss from around ~3% on paper.

Every 90 nest light/dark > ice by roughly 2.5%.

There might be ten thousand flaws in this calculations. So take nothing as granted.

Wow this is quiet a detailed description. Considering you even did this while being tired is even more impressive. I think that  helped me a lot understanding various aspects of ele resistances and favors. Rly appreciate your time and effort on there thank you :)

#24 Yuthz

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 12:29 AM

View PostiBob, on 10 April 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

I use overheat tech + skill up heraldry because it has the highgest board damage:

Leap over lv 18 has 3402% (4004% at +2)
Overheat lv 11 has 3622% (4263% at +2)

i Chose AS plate for overheat because i mostly use it only to initiate the overcharge. in order to get the high dmg u have to hit all 3 atks that appear uppon starting the skill. when u press leftclick uppon last hit Impact, u can just release left click and press again to stop overheat and iniciate overcharge (thats how i get my OP dmg there). Higher AS lets me get to overcharge faster. If im not mistaken the damage from skill plates does not apply for the following overcharge since it does not affect the written board damage.

And yes, we already do have the new tech Accessoires System (atleast for machina).

For all elemental ruinas, u should prioritice flow through cd over beat down damage imo, because u gain permanent and easy elemental resistance debuff by it.

Damage from skill plates do apply to charging gear, at least they do in pvp (tried with leap over) and they should do in pve also. I hope someone that tested it in pve can confirm it.

#25 Schiz

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 02:55 AM

Overheat AS doesn't work for 90% of the skill and it doesn't transfer over to charging gear.

Also, at least in EU even if you get all hits at the start, it can and will bug doing 10-30k/hit. At the same time, you can miss the boss altogether with the first hits and get the correct damage after, so that's not a solution and the bug looks just random.

Unless we get Overheat fixed, Leap Over is by far the strongest skill.
For me, 6% less damage on a skill that works 100% of the time with 24sec CD is much better than 6% more damage on a skill that bugs itself constantly and also has 32sec CD.

I will consider +2ing Overheat when it gets fixed, but for now it's always lower priority than Leap Over, and I only use it when Leap Over is on CD. Even then, I might still opt to use Kidney Blow because again, fast damage is better than no damage

Edited by Schiz, 12 April 2016 - 02:59 AM.


#26 iBob

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 08:44 AM

View PostSchiz, on 12 April 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

Overheat AS doesn't work for 90% of the skill and it doesn't transfer over to charging gear.

Also, at least in EU even if you get all hits at the start, it can and will bug doing 10-30k/hit. At the same time, you can miss the boss altogether with the first hits and get the correct damage after, so that's not a solution and the bug looks just random.

Unless we get Overheat fixed, Leap Over is by far the strongest skill.
For me, 6% less damage on a skill that works 100% of the time with 24sec CD is much better than 6% more damage on a skill that bugs itself constantly and also has 32sec CD.

I will consider +2ing Overheat when it gets fixed, but for now it's always lower priority than Leap Over, and I only use it when Leap Over is on CD. Even then, I might still opt to use Kidney Blow because again, fast damage is better than no damage

Well. Try doing it like i do (and i actually get every single overheat i start to deal its full dmg potential):

press the skill on skillbar, let Machina atk 3 times. On 3rd hit, u start pressing left mouse button and just hold it down for as Long as u want her to perform her ragefists. For me the bug only appears when i Press left mouse button too early or mis some of the 3 hits.

And again i want to Point out that the first 3 hits being ALOT faster are a HUGE help in using Ruina in RDN already I later explain how u get a highspeed overheat-overcharge. I ran RDN with both dmg and actionspeed plate. The DMG plate killed overheat > overcharge in 75% of the time because i didnt finish the 1st 3 hits in time and making the overcharge ultraslow.

And i just tested how to increase actionspeed on Overheat-Overcharge and overheat itself (Important!!! :)

The AS effect of the plate does only inherit on correct use of Overheat. It will NOT get inherited if u use the skill without hitting a mob with the 1st 3 hits. So if u just go into garden and use overheat and overcharge after, the overcharge will be slow. But if u go inside a dungeon, hit the mob with 1st 3 hits and THEN press left mouse button u will notice an increase in both the additional hits and the following overcharge.

And u can ADDITIONALLY benefit from the actionspeed increase by using a gearstep before using overheat (For elemental ruinas this would mean u do Footstomp > flow thru > overheat. Yes IK u cant chain into Overheat but the actionspeed is a 5 sec buff)

If u still wont believe me after u tested it yourself u might be doing something wrong in using Overheat. If that is the case i hereby offer to Show u how i do my overcharge and i will proof to you that u can get a very fast Overheat - Overcharge Close to the Speed of the kidney blow overcharge =)

My ingame Name is "BobMeowley"

Im mostly on at around ~ 6 - 11 pm Server time.

Feel free to pm me ingame!

#27 Yuthz

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 04:31 PM

View PostSchiz, on 12 April 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

Overheat AS doesn't work for 90% of the skill and it doesn't transfer over to charging gear.

Also, at least in EU even if you get all hits at the start, it can and will bug doing 10-30k/hit. At the same time, you can miss the boss altogether with the first hits and get the correct damage after, so that's not a solution and the bug looks just random.

Unless we get Overheat fixed, Leap Over is by far the strongest skill.
For me, 6% less damage on a skill that works 100% of the time with 24sec CD is much better than 6% more damage on a skill that bugs itself constantly and also has 32sec CD.

I will consider +2ing Overheat when it gets fixed, but for now it's always lower priority than Leap Over, and I only use it when Leap Over is on CD. Even then, I might still opt to use Kidney Blow because again, fast damage is better than no damage

Leap Over imo is still better, you're forgetting the 20% damage increase with command enhancement, you can also just hit once with leap over and miss all the hits it won't matter and overcharge will still work.

Overheat takes a lot of time and half the time its bugged.

Edited by Yuthz, 12 April 2016 - 04:32 PM.


#28 Rokes

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 04:53 PM

@weppy

You got it wrong man, its costume not custome...

Too lazy to actually think things through. Did you take into account the hp of the bosses or just assumed similar hp?

Edited by Rokes, 14 April 2016 - 04:55 PM.


#29 Weapon7

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 06:51 PM

View PostRokes, on 14 April 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

@weppy

You got it wrong man, its costume not custome...

Too lazy to actually think things through. Did you take into account the hp of the bosses or just assumed similar hp?

Nah didn't considerd boss hp, was just a lazy overall braindead comparison. Cuz ppl just consider RDN, where it is just a matter of choice but outside of that in 90 content the worse choice.

#30 iBob

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 05:32 AM

View PostYuthz, on 12 April 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

Leap Over imo is still better, you're forgetting the 20% damage increase with command enhancement, you can also just hit once with leap over and miss all the hits it won't matter and overcharge will still work.

Overheat takes a lot of time and half the time its bugged.

Even if the 20% damage increase by usage after gear step does apply to the following overcharge (which i doubt since my tests gave me different results but we) Overheat will still be the best choice if u can use it correct.

I did explain that earlier but w/e:

Overheat AS plate effect does only apply to all the hits if u hit the mob with the last of the 3 hits.
Gear steps do apply a 5 sec action speed buff. So if u use foot stomp - flow through to debuff, tumble back and use overheat with AS plate, u get both, the gear step as bonus and the as plate bonus giving tremendous speed on the hail of punches.
If u press and hold down the left mouse button to inniciate the hail of punches just after the 3rd hit did land on the mob u can release the left mouse button to stop the hail of punches and press and hold left mouse button again directly after to chain into an Overcharge which's Speed is equal to the one of Kidney Blow with AS plate, thus making it possible to land 2 overcharges in a row at a pretty fast Speed.

Stopping the hail after 1-3 hits of the hailstorm of punches grants u the fastest way to the deadliest overcharge in History of Meownkind! (on a gear stepped and AS plated Overheat +2 only tho. Gotta love those 4.2k% Board damage for overcharge :3)