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Defensio Confirmed Worst Class Of The Game By Devs


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#21 Quacksel

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:39 AM

rokes parties must be like:
every member has a 1km² radius for their own XD

dunno about your pt, but when we are doing dmg we are at same spot (saint ult eg <.< dmg reduction on a small place - sounds familiar?)

if u dont like it, dont play it - u cant change a skill just because u dislike it

Edited by Quacksel, 23 April 2016 - 07:40 AM.


#22 Rokes

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 03:32 PM

View PostQuacksel, on 23 April 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

rokes parties must be like:
every member has a 1km&sup2; radius for their own XD

dunno about your pt, but when we are doing dmg we are at same spot (saint ult eg <.< dmg reduction on a small place - sounds familiar?)

if u dont like it, dont play it - u cant change a skill just because u dislike it

First, have you even tried the class? You wouldnt be saying such bullshìt if you did, you literally can fail at hitting the entire group wven if they are together and not moving at all.

Who the fish said we want the damage reduction? You dont want damage reduction from Beyond the wall, you want Super Armor. Wtf has saint to do with any of what we are saying.

Its not that I dont like the class, i love the playstyle, just like I love Windwalker's playstyle. The class just sucks hard and there is not much tou can do about it.


Also I like how rètards who dont even play the class like to share their useless as fk opinion about a class they dont even play

#23 Quacksel

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 09:22 PM

rokes rudest player eu ^^ i said saint because of quite similar effects, and wtf dont get hit if u need a superarmor lel
ppl who doesnt have high end equip maybe likes to get extra 20% reduction in dark room? or in 2nd boss dmg phase?
not everybody is like you

#24 Rokes

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 11:06 PM

View PostQuacksel, on 23 April 2016 - 09:22 PM, said:

rokes rudest player eu ^^ i said saint because of quite similar effects, and wtf dont get hit if u need a superarmor lel
ppl who doesnt have high end equip maybe likes to get extra 20% reduction in dark room? or in 2nd boss dmg phase?
not everybody is like you

Ppl without Lgears NEED DPS characters not Defensio.

And obviously you dont play defensio, you just wanted to say something in a matter you dont know anything about just like the rètard you are.

#25 Quacksel

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 12:36 AM

just saying that 20% less dmg that is area restricted isnt bad (btw yourself talked about getting less dmg, not getting super armor, duh), and maybe if u stop swearing and blaming around and start to actually read posts, instead of picking one thing out at least 1 person would like u ;)

#26 Rokes

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 12:50 AM

View PostQuacksel, on 24 April 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

just saying that 20% less dmg that is area restricted isnt bad (btw yourself talked about getting less dmg, not getting super armor, duh), and maybe if u stop swearing and blaming around and start to actually read posts, instead of picking one thing out at least 1 person would like u ;)

And once again you put yourself in a ridiculous position by not even knowing how the damage reduction from Defensio works, since it has nothing to do with the shield.

Please go play defensio before talking. I am done with you.

------------------

People can talk and give their opinion however they want, but if you state something you have to back it up with knowledge and experience.

Rètards can be rètards, and that is fine, what puts me on the edge is rètards that act like they are not.

TLDR: BACK THE FÙCK UP THE SHÌT YOU SAY

Edited by Rokes, 24 April 2016 - 12:56 AM.


#27 Schiz

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 02:16 AM

quick sum of why defensio sucks

- damage: terrible after the "revamp" (we've never had pre revamp patrona, defensio used to be okay but now it's not)

- provoke: non relevant when you will never replace guardian so there will always be a guardian in your party (or destro, after the revamp) since you're not the tank and can't be the tank

- fd buff = ruina has it

- dmg reduction = other stronger classes have it and fill the role better without wasting a slot as buffslaves

- yellow shield thing = guardian does it much better, there's a reason why nobody takes destroyer as main tank and it's the same reason why nobody takes defensio

Spoiler

- but the shield doesn't get debuffed and it's good on some situations like dark room or dragon ADAD! = ruina has it

- defensive ultimate = ehueheuheuheuehue

If someone wants to provide insights and actually useful posts I'll be glad to be proven wrong (no sarcasm)

Edited by Schiz, 24 April 2016 - 02:18 AM.


#28 Jasel

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:16 AM

Uhm, I detect high levels of accurate criticism in this thread. Alright, let me try to post my experience with Defensio:

- Definitely the most enjoyable class I've ever played, feels agile, has a lot of air time, can block, can move insanely fast, can apply super armor, can apply damage reduction on teammates, can apply damage debuff on the boss, has self heal moves and its playstyle is frenetic and non-stop.

- Her damage sucks with non L-grade gears (I'm barely able to take one and a half patos oratio with a non elemental build with level 90 gear/ coma+nightmare). This is unconvenient for any party that needs dps.

- Her super armor buff is the most powerful defense buff I've seen and used in this game when applied on DPS classes. The cons to this are pea-sized area and short as heck buff duration (Ruina can do it too, so there goes what could give an advantage over this class). At best, you can cast two BTWs in a 3 second window (one for the boss and one for the team. Notice that when used on a DPS, it can raise its damage by quite a bit). Although being a powerful buff, it's usage is so gimmicky that guardian force (which does a lot less than BTW does) is 100 times more reliable.

- I don't know if her damage reduction stacks with other damage reduction buffs, if it does... that's how much? 20% from guardian + 20% from defensio, I guess. Permanently. What's annoying is that they could had given the damage reduction to taunting blow, but nah, they had to give it to BTW, because why not.

- Her healing is rubbish (but healing after all), but it gives some damage reduction when stepping on it. Its randomness makes it unreliable, like beyond the wall.

- Provoke works perfectly for me, being melee is not bad at all from my point of view (you have to be close to the enemy to give damage reduction anyway, and bouncy skills can be controlled). When doing HC, my defensio did make up for the guardian (who died before because of fire) and could keep the agro on her easily thanks to Repair.

- By using a combination of beyond the wall self+boss, TB and leap over (obviously EX) you get some reliable tankyness (not as good as any other tank).

- A future patch will arrive including a damage buff on Beatdown and leap over (I suspect in their EX versions) and some mechanic changes for ruina. This is not confirmed information, but we'll see.

From my point of view, any party that knows this is a game can take defensio with them to any stage. I myself cleared RDN HC in a random party with my defensio (and by random, I mean people who didnt know each other). While it is true we ended with like 3 minutes of spare time, it was like the most intense run I've done. Most parties in the game can clear RDN HC when missing 3 characters (either because they died or because they are being carried).

From my experience, two spots are guaranteed guardian(main tank)/destroyer(underused)+saint/phys/LF, four spots are usually DPS, the other 2 (you can sacrifice some DPS and get 4 random spots) can be whatever you want and it will not change the outcome of the run at all. Because you know there's only two possible outputs: success or failure.

If you like fast clear times around 20 minutes, dont take the defensio, take an extra full FD character. If you dont mind to take longer to clear, take the defensio. It will not make a difference in an experienced party, if the run fails, it's most likely to someone screwing something up, not to the defensio being a defensio (It's still cute, don't deny it).

To sum up, there is not a specific reason to take a Defensio in your HC party, it is not adviced to use it as a main tank (because it is currently underpowered), but at the same time we all know it is possible to clear without key elements (clears without guardian, without saint or with half the DPS) so... what are you worrying about? You could have a reliable DPS, a carried person, extra healing or a permanent damage reduction on boss + unreliable and occasional butt saver with great survivability (that is the defensio). The decision is only yours.

#29 Riinoa

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:58 AM

well just did rdn hc today with my defensio as only tank in the party for testing purpose and our guardian wasnt available today anyway, only 1 heal (saint) until bdn (phys died quite soon tho ö-ö ) and no "op fd people" in party and it went perfectly fine. well the only time i died was when i tried out what happens if i use man to man at death knight's dark room riip xD but yea, was quite fun to see huehue

so in fact if u can play defensio the right way for full support/tank and the others of the party dont rely on guardian force too much (no face-tanking, proper positioning behind the boss etc.) then yes, defensio can replace a guardian. but i guess this really depends on the playstyle tho

imo in cases of getting aggro (only this fact!) defensio is the better choice than guardian since you can spam taunting blow more often than provoke... when i am in a party with a guardian i kinda get the aggro by using taunting blow -> direct explosion... i've read in a guide somewhere that the aggro should disappear when the mark is exploded but well the first hit of TB is enough to steal aggro from guardian and this happens soooo damn often >->

only my personal experience and opinion pls dont flame etc. @ all the meanies in forum :<

Edit // in case of dmg it really is not as good as a gearmaster/sniper/whatever but still outdpsing some classes like acrobats/crusader/obscu with same equip (its useless to compare e.g. 90 epic defensio with rdn legend ww. i see a lot of ppl doing somehting like this actually... xD). at least what i was able to compare tho^^ but still in my original fixed party where i go on dps defensio, cause we got a guardian there, we cleared last time of about 45 mins or something if i remember correctly... (only 1 dps person with rdn legend there, the rest bdn l/90 epic for info on comparison)

Edited by Riinoa, 24 April 2016 - 06:27 AM.


#30 Rokes

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:26 AM

View PostRiinoa, on 24 April 2016 - 05:58 AM, said:

well just did rdn hc today with my defensio as only tank in the party for testing purpose and our guardian wasnt available today anyway, only 1 heal (saint) until bdn (phys died quite soon tho ö-ö ) and no "op fd people" in party and it went perfectly fine. well the only time i died was when i tried out what happens if i use man to man at death knight's dark room riip xD but yea, was quite fun to see huehue

so in fact if u can play defensio the right way for full support/tank and the others of the party dont rely on guardian force too much (no face-tanking, proper positioning behind the boss etc.) then yes, defensio can replace a guardian. but i guess this really depends on the playstyle tho

imo in cases of getting aggro (only this fact!) defensio is the better choice than guardian since you can spam taunting blow more often than provoke... when i am in a party with a guardian i kinda get the aggro by using taunting blow -> direct explosion... i've read in a guide somewhere that the aggro should disappear when the mark is exploded but well the first hit of TB is enough to steal aggro from guardian >->

only my personal experience and opinion pls dont flame etc. @ all the meanies in forum :<

Edit // in case of dmg it really is not as good as a gearmaster/sniper/whatever but still outdpsing some classes like acrobats/crusader/obscu with same equip (its useless to compare e.g. 90 epic defensio with rdn legend ww. i see a lot of ppl doing somehting like this actually... xD). at least what i was able to compare tho^^ but still in my original fixed party where i go on dps defensio, cause we got a guardian there, we cleared last time of about 45 mins or something if i remember correctly... (only 1 dps person with rdn legend there, the rest bdn l/90 epic for info on comparison)

while I agree the rest of what you said and I actually have been main tanking as Defensio in a weekly party due to lack of guardians, the part where you said it outdps Crusader is lmao.

only reason to take defensio, is lack of Guardian, Destroyer AND Crusader in the party, since Crusader can tank just as well as defensio.

And the provoke thingy, you cannot fail provoke as Guardian and it has same CD and higher duration than taunting blow, so nope, Defensio does not provoke better than Guardian.

#31 Riinoa

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:34 AM

View PostRokes, on 24 April 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

And the provoke thingy, you cannot fail provoke as Guardian and it has same CD and higher duration than taunting blow, so nope, Defensio does not provoke better than Guardian.

hm well i always snack the aggro of the guardians and it takes some time until they get it back cause provoke cd etc ö-ö

well maybe its just me that has this op face aggro idk

//forget what i edited here, i dont want any flame or something :x

Edited by Riinoa, 24 April 2016 - 06:41 AM.


#32 Joanoslayer

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:39 AM

View PostRiinoa, on 24 April 2016 - 06:34 AM, said:



hm well i always snack the aggro of the guardians and it takes some time until they get it back cause provoke cd etc ö-ö

well maybe its just me that has this op face aggro idk
Its not because defensio's provoke us stronger, its just that the second person who provokes steals the aggro.

#33 Riinoa

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:43 AM

View PostJoanoslayer, on 24 April 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

Its not because defensio's provoke us stronger, its just that the second person who provokes steals the aggro.

yea i thought that o: thats exactly why i said defensio is in cases of keeping up aggro better since it can reset the cd by using gear step skills and repair

i dont know how others are doing but i feel like i have quite none cd on taunting blow ö-ö except boss interrupts me of course but that's then my own fail and i have to avoid something like this

Edited by Riinoa, 24 April 2016 - 06:46 AM.


#34 Jasel

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 07:38 AM

I have no problem when keeping agro. The only miss case is when I am interrupted by the enemy with a strong enough move. And taunting blow's CD seems shorter than provoke for some reason. I'll have to check, but repair might have something to do with that (and you can plate TB with CD reduction too).

#35 RancorSnp

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 01:35 PM

View PostRokes, on 23 April 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

And then you do it on you team properly and 2/7 people get it YAY!

Cancer skill is cancer no matter how you look at it

Personally I think that the skill is very nice. Just ignore the barrier part, nobody can use a shield that lasts only 10 seconds (I'll still need to do research about the barrier though) but 30% more attack, for 10 seconds is a big boost, especially if you time it right.

But of course, everyone has his own favorite game style.

#36 Evrard

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 02:03 PM

yo, rokes rejoice:

View PostEvellyn, on 24 April 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

sauce : http://dragonnest.ne...d/page5&nxid=62

- Defensio was our own fault, we have plan of making it DPS soon.

Source: http://www.thisisgam....rd=57&n=121705
Source:http://www.thisisgam....rd=57&n=121709


#37 Rokes

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:08 PM

View PostEvrard, on 24 April 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

yo, rokes rejoice:

Hahahhahahahahahhahahahahhaahaahahahahhahaha

Thanks,  this totally made my day

Fact that even developers admit Defensio was just a mistake, like an unwanted baby is so lmao

Edited by Rokes, 24 April 2016 - 03:53 PM.


#38 Schiz

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:31 PM

View PostRancorSnp, on 24 April 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Personally I think that the skill is very nice. Just ignore the barrier part, nobody can use a shield that lasts only 10 seconds (I'll still need to do research about the barrier though) but 30% more attack, for 10 seconds is a big boost, especially if you time it right.

But of course, everyone has his own favorite game style.

Doesn't even work like that. The description is not correct. That atk buff doesn't exist, it doesn't work on you or your party members.

I think it's supposed to be the opposite (increasing def by 40% of your attack value) but I haven't bothered testing that. I just know for sure that it doesn't give any attack boost whatsoever

#39 Kanluran

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:42 PM

devs admitted defensio sux and its their fault..

they will turn it to dps class soon

View Postfourrier, on 24 April 2016 - 01:54 AM, said:


- Defensio was our own fault, we have plan of making it DPS soon.
So... Defensio was a mistake. Dev admitted it.


from this thread

#40 Rokes

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:19 PM

It was already pointed out by Evrard, but yeah.

No point discussing Defensio anymore. Worst class in game, only beaten by Acrobats even post revamp. At least they provably gonna "fix" her while they just dont know what to do with acrobat lmao