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Soul Eater's Future


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#1 Lexiano

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Posted 25 May 2016 - 07:33 AM

Is there any chance that dev will give back SE Puppet function like back then when it like a voodo doll??

Puppet now works like FU force mirror....not useful enough for se

Hopefully there is a miracle on SE puppet when it reach 93 cap


#2 MrZeul

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 06:07 PM

Unfortunately, the puppet right now is not needed in raids, since it does not stack with skills like Bull`s eye or Binding relix EX, infact it does even remove Bulls Eye. So there is no reason for you to ever use the puppet in an 8 man raid, assuming you have a Saint with you, which - lets be honest - is the case 99% of the time.
It still can be useful on 4 man nest / solo mode tho, since you dont always have those classes with you.

I personally think that the bug of SOP under PA buff made up for the puppet "loss" . Hitting 2 times, sometimes even 3 times with SOP on a single cast ( not including second SOP with left click ) under PA is such a huge burst. Then there´s the explosion from 3rd SOP, imagine it being a multi hit as well ( additional hits dont trigger the explosion again sadly, just normal SOP dmg ), it deals such a huge damage on the enemy. I did around 160million with that explosion only + additional SOP hits getting to 200m every 5 secs under PA.

So after all the puppet nerfs, I still think we got compensation for that ( although not intended ). I rly think SE´s are secretly super strong, most ppl just can´t fully utilize her ( has a lot of animation cancel; skill rotation adjustment according to boss position etc. etc.).

Thats why we actually don´t need a buff in 93 cap. I do not want her to be OP like raven/dancers and everybody starts playing her just cause. Stay under the radar pls xD

#3 From

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 09:39 PM

I've always said that SE is hidden OP support, with delay and curse.

#4 Arctic

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 10:00 PM

View PostFrom, on 31 May 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

I've always said that SE is hidden OP support, with delay and curse.

Well, i tested my past delay build in daidalus and other stuffs (not in rdn... my crappy pc burns there, but i guess rdn is a exception), and the delay skills doesn't applies the debuff (The resist thing above boss' head)...

Posted Image

#5 MrZeul

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 10:34 PM

View PostFrom, on 31 May 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

I've always said that SE is hidden OP support, with delay and curse.

I would actually say she is a DPS, which has supporty elements in her kit.
Despite having 15% ele resist reduction on enemy; 20% critical resist reduction; 20% dmg from puppet and the obvious "huhuuu genieeee" she brings more damage to the table, then she does support the team. I would say she needs some sort of utility skill to be considered a support rather than a dps ( heal/shield/GF/HC/cure removal :P )

Having 17% dmg buff on increase soul, 15% dmg from grudge formation, 15% more dmg per cling snake ( 1 more additional snake with instant ) + dmg speels under the effect of curse, her ability to improve her own damage sources is ridiculous. Not to mention the curse buff continuously damaging enemy bosses when they attack as well.
Unfortunately the skill % are a little low, compared to top tier dps causing her to fall off behind some of the stronger ones currently like destro ( huehue swiper reference ).
But I have seen myself out DPSing chasers/dancers with rdnL ( ofc without much FD, couldnt out dps them with ) so she does fine for me.

Delay isnt the best of her buffs, which is simply due to bosses ignoring it. Helps maybe in Daidalos, haven´t checked that though.

#6 Kouzaku

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 01:46 AM

Im happy that people still think this way. I agree, SE is currently not top tier but what makes her special is that she can carry herself well in soloes and parties because of her numerous buffs and debuffs.

Aside from the bug posted above, there're still several bugs in SOP which makes her really strong (not as strong as the top tier classes) but it's something that helps you in the dps department even more.

Sad to say, delay has been nerfed to the dust this 90 cap. I would love to see snakes delaying the bosses (sometimes potentially killing party members if you're not careful) but i know it's not coming back. The delay still works in 90 nests but it's almost negligible needless to say.

All in all, SE is still worth to play. I created 2 more paragraphs awhile ago supporting my claims but decided to delete it to avoid people think i'm boasting.

Edited by Kouzaku, 01 June 2016 - 01:53 AM.


#7 MrZeul

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 03:11 AM

View PostKouzaku, on 01 June 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

Im happy that people still think this way. I agree, SE is currently not top tier but what makes her special is that she can carry herself well in soloes and parties because of her numerous buffs and debuffs.

Aside from the bug posted above, there're still several bugs in SOP which makes her really strong (not as strong as the top tier classes) but it's something that helps you in the dps department even more.

Sad to say, delay has been nerfed to the dust this 90 cap. I would love to see snakes delaying the bosses (sometimes potentially killing party members if you're not careful) but i know it's not coming back. The delay still works in 90 nests but it's almost negligible needless to say.

All in all, SE is still worth to play. I created 2 more paragraphs awhile ago supporting my claims but decided to delete it to avoid people think i'm boasting.

Oh hi Chua :o Didnt know you read EU forum as well. Havent talked to you in a while, last time was the insane long posts on FB haha, how are you doing?
I agree that SE´s are currently among high tier dps, not Top tier. People are just affected by how unknown and unplayed this char is ( at least for EU ). So they might think, that SE sucks, just cause there are not that many people playing her.
I read something about Screamer changes in 93 cap. The animation of SOP becoming different and "smoother".
Have to see how that works out tho, haven´t seen a video yet.
I hope that people start playing her a bit more. Would love to discuss this class with more than 1 person :P

#8 Refeyl

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 04:47 AM

And to think this post on EU forum has more answers than the same post on SEA forum. (tense)  Should I open a bottle ? (clap)

Sir, check out this link for the new SOP EX animation :
http://v.youku.com/v...Y4NTc0OA==.html

#9 MrZeul

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 06:08 AM

View PostRefeyl, on 01 June 2016 - 04:47 AM, said:

And to think this post on EU forum has more answers than the same post on SEA forum. (tense)  Should I open a bottle ? (clap)

Sir, check out this link for the new SOP EX animation :
http://v.youku.com/v...Y4NTc0OA==.html

You definetly should :D

Damn, the animation smoothes it out so great! Its like an additional 0,5 - 1 seconds we gain from that !

#10 Schiz

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 09:33 AM

SE was definitely way better option than dancer before the revamp dps wise, I always brought SE whenever kali was needed in rdn

now if you want genie, dancers are just stronger no matter how you put it. With equal gear, dancer brings more damage, and -20% debuff from mist step that stacks (even tho its not ex it stacks, unlike deadly drill before revamp) is comparable to -15% elem. debuff from curse.

Any class that debuff 20% dmg or elem from their ex contributes as much as SE, like ruina with 10% fd buff + 20% elem or chasers with raid + punishment or blade runner ex or already mentioned dancers

so yes, they're good and not weak as random "only need super top tier deeps" plebs make them and idk why no one plays them but there's obviously better options atm

Edited by Schiz, 01 June 2016 - 09:34 AM.


#11 Kouzaku

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 10:13 AM

View PostMrZeul, on 01 June 2016 - 03:11 AM, said:

Oh hi Chua :o Didnt know you read EU forum as well. Havent talked to you in a while, last time was the insane long posts on FB haha, how are you doing?
I agree that SE´s are currently among high tier dps, not Top tier. People are just affected by how unknown and unplayed this char is ( at least for EU ). So they might think, that SE sucks, just cause there are not that many people playing her.
I read something about Screamer changes in 93 cap. The animation of SOP becoming different and "smoother".
Have to see how that works out tho, haven´t seen a video yet.
I hope that people start playing her a bit more. Would love to discuss this class with more than 1 person :P

Yup yup, i read forums everyday (:])  Actually in SEA, there are less discrimination against screamers compared to the other servers. So far only 3 classes(Destroyer, Defensio, Crus) in our server has it really bad where it'll take them hours to find a party. The rest of the classes can find parties easily.

Based from my experience, bug SE can still pretty much outdmg SD especially at full FD (since SD's FD is at diminishing return). Blade Dancer's dps is still way way ahead. Without FD at all (which means no diminishing returns), bug SE loses to SD. All in all, if i have to rank all 4 of them. BD >>> bug SE > SD > normal SE >> DS at full FD. Well, that was based from my damage meter and my experience playing all of them (:])

#12 MrZeul

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 07:31 PM

View PostKouzaku, on 01 June 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:



(since SD's FD is at diminishing return)


Could you pls explain why?

#13 Kouzaku

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 09:28 PM

View PostMrZeul, on 01 June 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

Could you pls explain why?

View PostKouzaku, on 01 January 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

Final Damage Notes:

I want to make it clear that Illusion dance/Breeze call dance increases your final damage by 60%. The skill percentage posted above are based on a 0% fd stats. As your final damage gets higher, the less effective % gains you'll receive. At 100% final damage, your illusion dance/breeze call dance will just give you 30% effective increase in damage.

Basic Calculations relative @ 100% FD (unplated):

[1+(Actual FD + FD BUFF)]/(1+Actual FD) = [1+(1.0+0.6)]/(1+1.0) = 1.30 = 30% damage increase~

The actual damage increase is lesser on a plated skill.

Much so, if the calculations are relative based on the 60% fd buff, the actual damage increase given by a 100% final damage stat is only to 50%.. lesser if the skill is plated.



In short the damage increase relative to your overall dps is smaller because of the existing FD buff.

To give a solid example let's take Elegant Storm as our example.

A lv13 Elegant Storm is 6782%. Elegant Storm EX is 6782% x 1.3 = 8815.3%

At 0% FD and 60% Breeze call buff
8815.3% * 1.6 = 14104.5%

At 100% FD and 60% Breeze call buff
8815.3% * (1.6+ 1) = 22920%

Damage increase:

[(22920%-14104%)/ 14104%] * 100 = 63%.

As you can see increasing your FD to 100% only yields an increase of 63%. This is the effect of diminishing returns that as you stack more, you gain less. Imagine if you have a Damage Plate.

At 0% FD and 60% Breeze call buff with 20% DMG Plate
8815.3% * 1.8 = 15867.5%

At 100% FD and 60% Breeze call buff with 20% DMG Plate
8815.3% * (1.8+ 1) = 24682.8%

Damage increase:

[(24682.8%-15867.5%)/ 15867.5%] * 100 = 56%.

So for a plated skill such as Hurricane Gust, going from 0% FD to 100% FD will yield 56% damage increase only.

This is the reason why at full FD a SE can catch up a bit since her damage increase in going 100% FD can give her 100% damage increase in an unplated skill compared to a dancer which only increased by 63%. However, without any FD at all, dancers with their innate 60% FD buff dominates screamers. Of course when the devs did the revamp, the 60% FD was already taken into consideration. That's why the board damage of dancers are pretty good but at fully optimize gears she starts to fall behind because of diminishing returns.

So the greatest question for dancers is.. would you spend hundred of dollars just for a 56%-63% damage increase? It's more like a cost vs. dmg increase thing. If you've got the money, then go~ As i've myself have enjoyed playing a FD dancer (:])

Edited by Kouzaku, 01 June 2016 - 09:59 PM.


#14 UltraMega

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 04:41 PM

I really dont fully understand this like what does BUG SE means? But from what i think, i love playing being an SE especially in a party. Sure i envy Raven's almost 1 shot kill to PVE but i love how agile my SE when it comes to DPS throwing all out skills from around the bosses. I dont think im gonna regret investing on my SE.

#15 Kouzaku

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 02:35 AM

This is "one" of it~ (:>)

Spoiler

Edited by Kouzaku, 11 June 2016 - 02:36 AM.


#16 Naerwin

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 04:03 PM

Those bugs are "great", i'd say that's a way to have a high skillcap class (and it does permit us to catch up to god tier DPSes (:>) )
Question now is, how do we proc them ? (:>)
I'm pretty sure I already experienced once, I nuked almost 60% of ddl abyss Lanker Hp with a wolf-SoP trigger (i don't have great stats, around 100k matk town, 45% dark). I first thought that was someone other than me that bursted so hard, but I was the only one hitting at that time (shame)  Was this just my imagination and I missed the burst of someone else, or was it really one of the SoP bug ?

#17 Kouzaku

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Posted 12 June 2016 - 07:45 PM

View PostNaerwin, on 11 June 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

Those bugs are "great", i'd say that's a way to have a high skillcap class (and it does permit us to catch up to god tier DPSes (:>) )
Question now is, how do we proc them ? (:>)
I'm pretty sure I already experienced once, I nuked almost 60% of ddl abyss Lanker Hp with a wolf-SoP trigger (i don't have great stats, around 100k matk town, 45% dark). I first thought that was someone other than me that bursted so hard, but I was the only one hitting at that time (shame)  Was this just my imagination and I missed the burst of someone else, or was it really one of the SoP bug ?

It's probably your burst.  I don't teach people how to bug though. I can just say that this is not really game breaking at all compared to the buff they did to dancers/glad/chasers. It just helps in the dps department. (:])