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Introduction To Gladiator Awakening In 93 Cap (Pve)


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#21 suineg

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 02:49 PM

View PostInnocentuz, on 21 August 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

I'll probably forgo Side Dash altogether, too many key combinations to remember D:
Can you use Finish Attack to drop bubbles when above 50%? Or is the animation too long to be worth it?

I have thought of using FA EX at first 50% HP Bar as well, since Side Dodge can no longer be used to reduce CD in the latest KDN update.

However, the DPS of FA EX is not that outstanding as compared to other Skills (such as Front Shove, Evasion Slash & Parry) at first 50% HP. In addition, the animation is a bit long. Meaning, after you successfully cast a FA EX, the exact amount of time could be better used in doing Parry + Evasion Slash + Front Shove, as the latter does much higher damage at first 50% HP. Thus, the amount of time & effort spent in using FA EX for CD Reduction Mechanism may not worth it.

Nevertheless, I twisted the Skill Rotation a bit, and come out with a new strategy.

LD + Dash Kick + LD + Finish Attack + Immediately Cancel with Evasion Slash + Front Shove + Brave + Side Kick


Posted Image


As we can see here, the CD of LD is reduced from 10s to 5s.

In order to save time here, I cancelled FA EX immediately with Evasion Slash, and max Bubbles by using Front Shove + Brave. (In fact, you can use other Skills such as Parry/Triple Slash with Brave to max Bubbles as well, I just took Front Shove as an example only). In this case, while applying CD Reduction Mechanism, we NEVER compromise DPS as Evasion Slash/Front Shove are pretty decent in dealing the damage, in the process of maximizing Bubbles. This method is like "Force Use" of CD Reduction Mechanism.

Just saying, what I have mentioned above are theories only. If we want to apply it into the Pratical Situation, we need to think of the both pros and cons. we will ask questions like: How much will be the increase in DPS if we use FA EX for CD Reduction Mechanism at first 50%, does it worth the effort? Is this method comfortable to use, will it affect the flow of the game play if we force apply it? There are quite some factors to consider and I am not really sure of them.

Just like what you have mentioned, there are too much stuff to remember and it may cause a burden in the actual gameplay. Besides those really HardCore Players who want to like 100% mazimize their DPS output (NOT me), for the majority of the Players, I believe just relax and be comfotable with the gameplay is more than sufficient already.

#22 kambinks

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 05:11 PM

Thanks for the update. Learnt a new thing about Front Shoves co-ef. I thought Hyperdrive had 12 max hits from reading on Freedomplays but it does seem 16 is more logical from 4 dashes.

View Postsuineg, on 21 August 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

In fact, many people are having a hard time adapting to the new play style. Even after I have been playing the Awakening Gladiator for like 2 months time since its release, I've to admit that my Skill still sucks. The "feel" is very different due to the significant changes.

Personally, to be honest, I don't really like the Awakening playstyle of the Gladiator, I feel like I am playing a completely new Class instead. I still prefer the "Hacking Stance era", despite Gladiator is pretty weak at that point of time, I kinda feel fun and exciting when playing. Nevertheless, we have to move on and adapt to changes.

Actually, I have thought of going back to the past play style without relying too much on the Awakening Skills. However, in this way, I can no longer maximize the DPS of my Gladiator, which could be a big lost. So, there is no choice but to "Force Habit" here.
Agreed. Though I don't think its prudent to hold on the previous caps game play. Theres definitely potential in the current 93 cap playstyle but I just feel its not as refined. Triple Slash needs a remake imo but everything else does have potential. I'd like it if they add I frame to Hyperdrive's slashing movement, and make Triple Slash and Front Shove spamming a core element again with Evasion Slash reset the 2 skills CD..  

View Postsuineg, on 21 August 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

You may take a look at #6 for Skill Build. Cyclone Slash is almost useless now as Brave can gain Bubbles instantly and more efficiently. In addition, the casting time of Cyclone Slash is long.

On the other hand, I thought of one situation where Cyclone Slash could be useful. In RDN Stage 2 (Krudelis), during HP Mechanism, you can throw a Cyclone Slash to check the HP of the Krudelis Fragment which is far away from you, such that you are able to decide whether or not to DPS the one which is in front of you. As for this case here, only Cyclone Slash can reach that far. Besides that, I can't think of any other useful aspects.
Personally I'm leaning towards skipping awakening triple slash and Side dodge if i ever get to reset my build. No reason for any moonlord skills apart for PVP maybe. The new Triple Slash just feels sluggish and I'm not going to cast the 5 slash anyways. I think I'm getting a hang of Awakening Front Shove which I guess  is a must since it can heal eventhough it doesn't heal that much.

#23 Innocentuz

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 07:19 PM

The sluggishness of Triple Slash awakening is probably a bug, so if you do choose to skip it, save a couple of skill points just in case they fix it. My favorite part is that the cap will make double line drive the defacto line drive style due to burst and effectively only 5s cooldown, as such I don't have to theorycraft about which style of driving is better.

#24 kambinks

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 04:51 PM

I don't really mind messing up my build there.. Its just a dummy account to test stuff. After testing GMs awakening I'll probably wont have any use for it apart for when Ruina's get their changes. Still don't think its a bug. Its just badly designed by the devs.

#25 AceOfSpades

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:40 AM

wohooo hoo (love) that infinite combos you can do (:>) bravo dragon nest developers (clap)

#26 znarf27

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 09:41 AM

Is awakening front shove when pressed "W" still can lift when you press right click?

Edited by znarf27, 23 August 2016 - 09:43 AM.


#27 kambinks

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 09:51 AM

yes

#28 xTsuwamono

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 11:20 AM

I know it increases the damage but I feel like triple slash awakening is pretty useless and I would rather stay with the normal triple slash, can you skip the triple slash awakening skill without affecting the ability to activate any other skill? if so have you thought about trying this?

#29 kambinks

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:38 PM

No problems really, my second build I tested around with didn't have front shove awakening and side dodge but I got the hang of front shove so I added it later. Just I recommend you save sp for it even if you skip the skill sp you can add up the skill if the developers decided to ninja fix it if ever.

Edited by kambinks, 23 August 2016 - 12:39 PM.


#30 Mortdecai

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:09 PM

might be a little out of topic but just wanna ask my warrior brothers, how are glads in terms of survivability? are glads squishy like other classes (sins, sorc, archer, etc)? really just curious about the class since i've never tried one ever, only have barb and ML.

Edited by Mortdecai, 23 August 2016 - 09:21 PM.


#31 suineg

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:45 PM

View PostMortdecai, on 23 August 2016 - 05:09 PM, said:

might be a little out of topic but just wanna ask my warrior brothers, how are glads in terms of survivability? are glads squishy like other classes (sins, sorc, archer, etc)? really just curious about the class since i've never tried one ever, only have barb and ML.

For Gladiator in 93 Cap, I would say the survivability is greatly improved as compared to the past 2 Caps.

One important element of Awakening Gladiator will be the ability to self-heal. If Front Shove Hits successfully, 3% of the HP (based on your Total HP) is recovered. 3% HP may not seem to be a big deal, but it can be life-saving in the long run. Moreover, Front Shove can be spammed with relatively high frequency. This greatly improves the survivability of the Gladiator.

If you want to compare against other classes, I believe that the majority of the female classes will definitely be more "fragile" as compared to the male classes. On the other hand, among all the 5 Warriors, Destroyer is unarguably the most tanky one here.

Indeed, it will be better if you can try it out yourself to get the hang of the play style.

#32 suineg

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 11:55 PM

View Postkambinks, on 21 August 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

I thought Hyperdrive had 12 max hits from reading on Freedomplays but it does seem 16 is more logical from 4 dashes.

Indeed, what you have read are correct at that point of time. This is because the patch released by freedomplays was based on Phase 1 Adjustment (KDN ver 693), also known as the initial release of 93 Cap in KDN, where everything is very different from what it is now. During that time, Hyper Drive only has 12 Hits in total (ratio 2:1:1); the Board Damage of Parry is only 2160%; and for Triple Slash, by starting with Right Click, your overall damage will be lower than starting with Left Click, etc. Basically, everything is simply messed up.

For Phase 2 adjustment (KDN ver 710/CDN ver 264), which is NOW, KDN Developers has "revamped" some of the Skills in Phase 1, with removal of some major Bugs, as such, this version is the more "stabilized" version which has been released on CDN, DNTW, JDN, etc, as their first 93 Cap update. Thus, players from the other servers don't have to experience all the "messed up" stuff again.

In fact, I have briefly explained this in #3 (Timeline of Gladiator Awakening). However, I only covered the major changes and never really go down to all these minor details.

View Postkambinks, on 21 August 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

I'd like it if they add I frame to Hyperdrive's slashing movement, and make Triple Slash and Front Shove spamming a core element again with Evasion Slash reset the 2 skills CD..

Actually, I was thinking, for Hyper Drive, it will be better if we can press "S" Key to shorten its distance (similar to Line Drive). Sometimes, for Stages like Spitflower Ignis, one "careless" Drive can end up in the lava. For Front Shove, personally, I'm thinking that by holding the "S" Key, then the Front Shove will become the "2 Slashes" version. In this way, we can retain the Old Version together with its iframe, and it will be a lot easier to pilot. Lastly, for Triple Slash, I can't think of anything to comment, it really sucks after Awakening . . .

Edited by suineg, 24 August 2016 - 01:10 AM.


#33 kambinks

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 01:13 AM

View Postsuineg, on 23 August 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:



Indeed, what you have read are correct at that point in time. For Phase 1 Adjustment (KDN ver 693), or we called it the initial release of 93 Cap on KDN Server, everything is very different from now. During that time, Hyper Drive only has 12 Hits in total (ratio 2:1:1); the Board Damage of Parry is only 2160%; and for Triple Slash, if you start with Right Click, your overall damage will be lower than starting with Left Click, etc. Basically, almost everything is extremely messed up.

For Phase 2 adjustment (KDN ver 710/CDN ver 264), which is now, KDN Developers has 'revamped" most of the Skills from Phase 1, with removal of some major Bugs, as such, this version is the more "stabilized" version which has been released on CDN, DNTW, JDN, etc, as their first 93 Cap update. Thus, players from the other servers don't have to experience all the "messed up" stuff again.

In fact, I have briefly explained this in #3 (Timeline of Gladiator Awakening). However, I only covered the major changes and never really go down to all these minor details. In other words, KDN is just like a test server.



Actually, I was thinking, for Hyper Drive, it will be better if we can press "S" Key to shorten its distance (similar to Line Drive). Sometimes, for Stages like Spitflower Ignis, one "careless" Drive can end up in the lava. For Front Shove, personally, I'm thinking that by holding the "S" Key, then the Front Shove will be the "2 Slashes" version. In this way, we can retain the Old Version together with its iframe, and it will be a lot easier to pilot. Lastly, for Triple Slash, I can't think of anything to comment, it really sucks after Awakening . . .
Very true. A short version would be nice but that'd make it like another ex of line drive rather than a new skill. Right now I feel its too easy to get cancelled out of hyperdrive. Not that it happens too often but I feel it doesnt have the same super armor as line drive has.

I think adding more variants to frontshove is just going to make people accidently cast side dodge more haha.

#34 Mortdecai

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:48 AM

View Postsuineg, on 23 August 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

For Gladiator in 93 Cap, I would say the survivability is greatly improved as compared to the past 2 Caps.

One important element of Awakening Gladiator will be the ability to self-heal. If Front Shove Hits successfully, 3% of the HP (based on your Total HP) is recovered. 3% HP may not seem to be a big deal, but it can be life-saving in the long run. Moreover, Front Shove can be spammed with relatively high frequency. This greatly improves the survivability of the Gladiator.

If you want to compare against other classes, I believe that the majority of the female classes will definitely be more "fragile" as compared to the male classes. On the other hand, among all the 5 Warriors, Destroyer is unarguably the most tanky one here.

Indeed, it will be better if you can try it out yourself to get the hang of the play style.

thanks! actually coming from a barb, i could facetank almost anything, even HBF HC is just a stroll in the park for me w/o hero, but somehow still not so contented with my damage outside ECS, since i still have a jc, wondering if going glad or destro would be better. anyway, as long as it's a warrior, i'm fine with it, just concerned about survivability.

Edited by Mortdecai, 24 August 2016 - 09:48 AM.


#35 Innocentuz

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 02:54 PM

What is the verdict on Hacking Stance?
With the EX being 100%, with enough action speed buff, it might be an awesome DPS skill.

#36 kambinks

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 08:53 PM

I think Hacking Stance is the go to skill to sacrifice SP for since its not tied to any Awakening requirements especially when some may want to max Provoking Slam and Eclipse since both skills have higher board damage now (though not by much). TS has his at lvl 1 mine at lvl 11 but haven't really been using it if at all.

Could be a good skill but you're wasting good double Line Drive + Hyperdrive seconds on Hacking Stance. You're already on good rotation following TS's recommendation.

Edited by kambinks, 24 August 2016 - 08:55 PM.


#37 Innocentuz

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:44 PM

Also, what about Crescent Cleave? Is the board damage changed to total damage?

#38 kambinks

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:21 PM

Supposedly. Great filler skill but its just doesn't fill well with the other skills. Especially when it doesn't contribute to either bubble farming or reducing the CD of Smash X, other skills take priority most of the time.

You can skip Crescent Cleave but you don't really have much else better to spend SP on. Maybe for Triple Slash and Front Shove for PVP but PVE wise I don't think theres any point in dropping Crescent Cleave for any other skill.

Edited by kambinks, 24 August 2016 - 10:27 PM.


#39 suineg

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 01:05 AM

View PostMortdecai, on 24 August 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

thanks! actually coming from a barb, i could facetank almost anything, even HBF HC is just a stroll in the park for me w/o hero, but somehow still not so contented with my damage outside ECS, since i still have a jc, wondering if going glad or destro would be better. anyway, as long as it's a warrior, i'm fine with it, just concerned about survivability.

Hmm, in 93 Cap (Awakening), Developers are more favoured in building Classes with "constant" DPS output in the long run, rather than "burst" DPS for a short period of time. This is to prevent some Classes from relying only on one Skill to do damage (For example, CD of FA EX is changed to 18s).

Both Gladiator & Destroyer are quite powerful DPSes after Awakening, provided that they are Geared. I believe that Destroyer will be relatively easier to play as it has much higher survivability as compared to Gladiator. Moreover, judging from what you have mentioned, you seemed more inclined towards those "tanky" classes. On the other hand, it might be a great experience for you to try out some Classes that you have never touched before as well.

#40 suineg

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 02:02 AM

View PostInnocentuz, on 24 August 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

What is the verdict on Hacking Stance?
With the EX being 100%, with enough action speed buff, it might be an awesome DPS skill.

After Awakening, even though there is a boost to Hacking Stance EX, its damage is still inferior as compared to the other Main DPS Skills. The conclusion is drawn based on theory as well as actual test in the Nest. However, I am unable to show you now as I don't want to reset my Skills again just for this.

View PostInnocentuz, on 24 August 2016 - 09:44 PM, said:

Also, what about Crescent Cleave? Is the board damage changed to total damage?

According to the Patch Notes: Crescent Cleave - Damage Display changed to Single Hit. Attack Power increased - 163.5% > 1304% (PVE)