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Is Mixed Kornu A Thing For Agi Classes?


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#1 Jasel

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 06:54 PM

So I was moderating SEA forums today and a topic appeared asking if someone could mix kornu gear with RDNL to obtain better results than RDNL alone. The discussion kept going until someone sent in a SIM which I altered several times to +12 and +13 enhancement levels. On both cases, the results looked like this:

Posted Image

So my question is: should people aim for this build on AGI classes?

Link to the original thread: http://forum.cherryc...ing-kornu-rdnl/

Disclaimer: I did not create the sim, only the image showing the stat changes.

Edited by PawHammer, 24 August 2016 - 08:01 PM.


#2 zuyi

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:04 PM

dude you didn't alter anything, you just took my sim and screen shot it. Really mate? lol. And there's atleast 3 other topics regarding this topic go read there.

The only thing you altered is 1 costume ring.

Edited by zuyi, 24 August 2016 - 07:05 PM.


#3 Jasel

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:10 PM

View Postzuyi, on 24 August 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

dude you didn't alter anything, you just took my sim and screen shot it. Really mate? lol. And there's atleast 3 other topics regarding this topic go read there.

The only thing you altered is 1 costume ring.

But the SIM I saw was a RDNL one, I had to put the kornu on to take the screenshot. Also pointing out this is DNEU forums, not SEA, and I see no thread on that topic.

Edit: just realized there is more than one sim slot, apologies. I edited everything so it looks like it did before. -goes to bang his head in a wall-

Edited by Jasel, 24 August 2016 - 07:17 PM.


#4 zuyi

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:16 PM

View PostJasel, on 24 August 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

But the SIM I saw was a RDNL one, I had to put the kornu on to take the screenshot. Also pointing out this is DNEU forums, not SEA, and I see no thread on that topic.

Oh is it not?

Posted Image

It contains 2 builds each with full rdnl vs mix set using different wing/tail/decal.

This thread is so pointless.

1) Asking a question while giving reference to another thread discussing the same exact thing. (not even the 1st such thread)

2) Taking someone else's sim and claiming he did them himself. Instead of just continuing the discussion on the other thread.

#5 RancorSnp

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:18 PM

View Postzuyi, on 24 August 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

dude you didn't alter anything, you just took my sim and screen shot it. Really mate? lol. And there's atleast 3 other topics regarding this topic go read there.

The only thing you altered is 1 costume ring.

Trust me, most of the people from EU forums have never seen it. I personally haven't even heard of you. And I'll dare to say, topic is worth making in EU, where we have a lot better geared, and experienced players on forums (I am not one of them though).

And as much as Jasel should indeed mention that you are the creator of the picture, I wouldn't go so hostile against a moderator if I were you :P

As for the topic at hand, the top players should be the ones to respond, but I'll still tell you my own FD build :

I use double evolution Kornu weapons, 2x bdn L (Helmet and gloves, need helemt to replace it for evo kornu), 3x RDN L (Upper body, lower body, and shoes = the strongest RDN armor parts)

In this situation I do indeed loose a loooot attack. It's around 15k difference. However I do gain 450 FD which will become 550 with kornu helmet, and up to 700 with luck on variant jade (with 18 characters in one guild however, I think I can manage).

Wether such a trade is worth it = let more experienced players decide. I like this build.

#6 Neolia

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:21 PM

Well i don't see the point of saying there's already threads about it when it doesn't on EU. I don't think lot of EU players are interested of checking DN SEA forums.

#7 zuyi

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:24 PM

View PostRancorSnp, on 24 August 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

Trust me, most of the people from EU forums have never seen it. I personally haven't even heard of you. And I'll dare to say, topic is worth making in EU, where we have a lot better geared, and experienced players on forums (I am not one of them though).

And as much as Jasel should indeed mention that you are the creator of the picture, I wouldn't go so hostile against a moderator if I were you :P

As for the topic at hand, the top players should be the ones to respond, but I'll still tell you my own FD build :

I use double evolution Kornu weapons, 2x bdn L (Helmet and gloves, need helemt to replace it for evo kornu), 3x RDN L (Upper body, lower body, and shoes = the strongest RDN armor parts)

In this situation I do indeed loose a loooot attack. It's around 15k difference. However I do gain 450 FD which will become 550 with kornu helmet, and up to 700 with luck on variant jade (with 18 characters in one guild however, I think I can manage).

Wether such a trade is worth it = let more experienced players decide. I like this build.

1) I don't really care if he is a mod or not.

2) The forums are shared, going to "View New Content" would lead to seeing the thread anyway. Infact he could just provide a link to that thread, enabling players from both server to comment on it, giving a more diverse discussion.

3) There is no such thing as "top player should respond" anyone who can give an opinion and proper comparison with reasoning should comment.

4) Those gears in sim, I already have all of those, including all the cash eq and enhancements and kornu and rdnl and heraldries and talismans and whatnot., I will get my genesis in 3 weeks hance I made the sim. So by your "top players should respond logic" I guess I'm entitled to replying.

5) When you talk about "maybe 700 with variant" you need to consider a variant of that level gives 2k+ raw patk, 2k+ agi, 25k or so crit damage as well. Now if you actually had seen the other thread (where cmiiw but Pawhammer, another EU player has been discussing) you would see that people have been saying the most important thing in the build is a +10 variant. Without that, RDNL will definitely be better.

edit:

another thing to take into consideration, since this is a discusion about agi classes anyway, the kornu build gives a lot more crit damage becaue of enhanced defensive jades and the variant jade, as compared to the full RDNL build.

Edited by zuyi, 24 August 2016 - 07:28 PM.


#8 RancorSnp

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:31 PM

View Postzuyi, on 24 August 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

3) There is not such thing as "top player should respond" anyone who can give an opinion and proper comparison with reasoning should comment.

Please, read what you said again and think what you are talking about.

You are pretty much saying "It doesn't matter what scientists say, everyone should be able to say what they think"

Yes, everyone can voice their opinion on any topic, which I even did.  Thing is LISTENING to anyone other than an expert of said thing, is plain stupid.

(and the forums aren't shared. Going though the DN EU link, you will end up in a view of DN EU section ONLY. Which is a good thing.)

As for other points you brought up, I won't even comment on them.  But will kindly ask you to cease the unnecessary hostility.

#9 zuyi

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:50 PM

View PostRancorSnp, on 24 August 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

Please, read what you said again and think what you are talking about.

You are pretty much saying "It doesn't matter what scientists say, everyone should be able to say what they think"

Yes, everyone can voice their opinion on any topic, which I even did.  Thing is LISTENING to anyone other than an expert of said thing, is plain stupid.

(and the forums aren't shared. Going though the DN EU link, you will end up in a view of DN EU section ONLY. Which is a good thing.)

As for other points you brought up, I won't even comment on them.  But will kindly ask you to cease the unnecessary hostility.

The last 2 points weren't even hostile, they were discussing the topic.

I'm not saying listen to general plebs, I'm saying people who have sound reasoning should not be disregarded, why don't you read that again instead :P
Also just because someone is geared doesn't always mean they know everything and there is no knowledge about that class that is hidden to them, everyone can learn from others at least expected moments, so yeah.

All I'm trying to say is gears don't make someone expert, that's simple to understand, isn't it? Not all scientists are pros eh? Not everyone who writes about the effects of food on body building is an expert body builder themself. (An example, don't kill me for it k)

I do fail to see the hostility except the very first post anyway. I just replied about not caring for a person's status when you gave me a very nicely-worded warning that I was being hostile to a mod.

Pawhammer did state that in EU discussions people say that RDNL is way better than mix kornu and now here you say its a good thing you can only see your own forums. Well I can see why you're against taking into consideration all the items available in game and taking into consideration the thoughts of non-EU people about options available for gearing. Quite funny if I say so.


View PostPawHammer, on 24 August 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

For DPS classes, mixing gear would not work that well. I've seen this topic arise several time in DNEU forums, and the reply has always been clear: except for defence, RDNL (upgraded to +12 or so) is way better than kornu at the same enhancement level because of the extra stats it gives. I mean, it is possible for you to stack FD with your current plan, but it relies heavily on your base damage for the calculations:

-If the % increase you get from FD is higher than the % attack you lose from not going full RDNL, use your plan (but obviously go RDNL weapons + upper body, Kornu U helm and lower body and Kornu E for gloves and shoes, RDNL accessories, so as to get the highest base attack for your % extra damage).

-If the % increase you get from FD is lower, do not do it. It's generally better (as a dps) to have higher attacking stats than just FD (which you can get anyway from either cash gear or cheap attack/concentration heraldries).

View Postzuyi, on 24 August 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

DNEU forumers do not take into account every possiblity then. This entirely depends on the level of variant jade. With a +10 variant jade, players would have almost the same p-atk/m-atk as full rdnl, the difference being les than 1k in most cases. I've done the sim for my +13 RDNL Sniper with 6.7k agi on plates and 6k+ agi on talis equipping genesis rings, pretty highly geared, and the difference comes out to be only 800 P-Atk less. And sniper is a class with huge stat/patk multipliers.

Another thing to note, while for Int/Str classes the difference won't be as much, Agi base classes gain a lot more crit damage with mixed build compared to full RDNL because each jade gives crit damage and a +10 variant gives 25k crit damage.

Basically, mixed set can give way better total damage output, depending entirely on what level your variant dragon jade is.

If you want to see the sim:
http://dnsim.eu/dneu...d-9b74b987364c#

View PostPawHammer, on 24 August 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

Okay, I made the simulations both at level 12 enhancement and level 13 enhancement and the results are surprising:

So yes, it seems to work really well. However, relies on the helmet jade to be on a high level and to have a limitation heraldry (mixed set has higher crit damage overall and gets a bigger boost from that), but the drop in attack is not that big of an issue. So yes, at least for sniper, it works.

Had a good sound debate in just 3 simple posts without anyone getting their panties up in a bunch or disrespecting each other personally, and all this for AGI based classes, already discussed before this thread was made. Players from both EU and SEA participating.

P.S: I do believe "DNEU Forumers" and "Pawhammer" are different entities so in case anyone wants to point that out, I still didn't disrespect Pawhammer personally in the discussion hence I didn't say anything wrong in the above statement.

Edited by zuyi, 24 August 2016 - 07:50 PM.


#10 Neolia

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 07:57 PM

Meeeh people are always annoying, and making wall of text for no reason. (oo;) (gasp)

#11 PawHammer

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 08:05 PM

Alright, please, I fixed the opening post, do not derail the thread. The main purpose is to inform EU players of the possibility of using the mixed set on their AGI classes without losing overall damage, since most of them access the site through the direct link and not through cherrycredits forum (therefore they don't see latest topics). And me and Jasel are the same person (one is not my moderator account). I should had clarified first I do not own the SIM. Now keep on topic, please.

#12 MuchAshe

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:26 PM

Where is all that Crit Dmg coming from in the first one, weeeeew.

#13 Neolia

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:28 PM

View PostMuchAshe, on 24 August 2016 - 09:26 PM, said:

Where is all that Crit Dmg coming from in the first one, weeeeew.

Prolly a non life jade build.

#14 zuyi

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:41 PM

The crit damage for full rdnl build is a little higher than what I expected, I think it may be a bit higher than it really should be.

Since the sim is based on my sniper with the only changes being dual genesis rings to what I have right now, I dont see how it could jump from 217% to 228% in town, thats around 74k flat crit damage rise.
Genesis rings give 10k each and 5% to str and int, L jades have 3.4k crit damage each.

That is 26.8k~ crit dmg and 10% str and int + 20% of all that from limitation plate. Should not give that much, but we'll see in a few weeks if it is true or not.

Btw that build has 9 wind and 5 life vit jades, no bear jades.

#15 Quacksel

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 05:07 AM

nonononono i heared from several places (dont wanna mention them here now hue hue ;) )
that if u dont have full rdn l u dont even have to go in idn, that weak u are then D;

btt: i have kornu, taking it for additional fd, 10% crit dmg is not as much as when your fd rises from 40 to 50.

furthermore u can give variant jade in, to get a bit more fd (and crit xD - ok maybe not important for agi classes)
and def goes up ;3


i would say its the cheapest way to get as much fd as possible atm

but im 100% sure there are 10 flame posts under mine tomorrow XD

cya ~

#16 zuyi

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 01:09 PM

View PostQuacksel, on 25 August 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

nonononono i heared from several places (dont wanna mention them here now hue hue ;) )
that if u dont have full rdn l u dont even have to go in idn, that weak u are then D;

btt: i have kornu, taking it for additional fd, 10% crit dmg is not as much as when your fd rises from 40 to 50.

furthermore u can give variant jade in, to get a bit more fd (and crit xD - ok maybe not important for agi classes)
and def goes up ;3


i would say its the cheapest way to get as much fd as possible atm

but im 100% sure there are 10 flame posts under mine tomorrow XD

cya ~
Yes but crit damage is higher in kornu build anyway because of the 90 jades, its not an option of crit dmg vs fd, they are both higher (along with higher def and mdef) all in the same build

Edit -
Only things lower are P-Atk (slightly) and HP (give up some hp for more defenses so it balances out)

Edited by zuyi, 25 August 2016 - 01:10 PM.


#17 Flashbaka

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 08:51 PM

Thats works for archer cause RDN-L are pretty bad statwise for archer, for example RDNL chest for archer gives 1840 agi while assasin chaser gives 2577 str. On other classes that have higher base stats on armors,  scale 1 to 1 with the main atribute or are FD capped is not worth getting kornu.

Edited by Flashbaka, 25 August 2016 - 08:56 PM.


#18 Weapon7

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:44 PM

I call this thread bs! I kinda understand the general question but first if you use a SIM which works quite well normally you see numbers. If a green + or a red - isn't indication for you enough, how will the opinion of others be? Beside what are this gears being simulated? Like pls tell me one person with the Downfall of Jakard title still playing on EU. Ohh wait Flash! Ohh wait SERVER WIPE! And who dafuq has enough gold for a full epic custome set but not 2 epic weapon coupons? Was this build made by Kelly Bundy?

Posted Image


Argenta's Decal + Geraint tail cuz fugg a 2 set bonus. And then even if the SIM hasnt been updated with last patch I just love to see the the replacement of a 2016 accs ring with an old rare one giving up 2.5% ele dmg and 200 all stats for 2.5% crit rate cuz that's what ele classes need. And the Blue Bird Spirit instead of another rare one giving atk stats, cuz hey we discuss dmg optimisation but we are cheap sheep fuggers or what? Can SOMEONE pls enlight me about the consistent line in this builds? And all this 3rd stat AGI plates even on a 90 Limitation plate but not even a cheap rare concentration one cuz that 900 atk ~ 0.3% atk increase definetly better than 1% more fd, right?

In promising awaiting of the reply of this autistic class, kind regards
-Weapon7

#19 zuyi

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 12:03 AM

View PostWeapon7, on 25 August 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

~
So here's the response
Spoiler

Edited grammar/typoes

Edited by zuyi, 26 August 2016 - 12:10 AM.


#20 Weapon7

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 12:22 AM

I'm aware of your post but as Jasel said he re-did the SIM etc. it makes no sense to do this with "SEA gear/stats" nor does it make sense to discuss a SEA build here.

On EU there have been several Geraints sold the last days, so yeah as this is still DNEU as far as I know, getting geraints is not a problem especially considering the amount of gold someone would have to spend to fulfill this build.

But yeah I said I call this thread bs. Cba to check the SEA one as basicly idc.