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Assistance Regarding Ruina.. Tia


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#1 inchik

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 09:51 AM

Hi Guys...

I'am a full blooded archer player... But since chronicle chars are here, i decided to try out Ruina...
(I also created this tread on kali, coz i made a BD on my other account)


Anyway.. this are the things i wanna ask help about....

consideration.. I have this skill bar keys...
>> T - I usually put Ulti here..
>> 1~5 - I place low cd skills and lower damage compared to other skills
>> Q, E, R - I place the HIGH damage skills here...usually those that can be able to chain into..
>> X, C, V - I place the buff here..

1. Please assist me on what skill should I place on 1~5, QER, XCV... I am well verse on changing Skillbars on 1st and 2nd.. so please if possible help me place those skill with the consideration i have mention.

2. What are the Skill rotation of Ruina

3. What skill plates should I equip considering 80% PVE

4. What are the Heraldries to consider?

5. What can you say about Ruina in terms of PVE...


Thanks in Advance...
For the love of Cats.. (hat) (:]) (;])

#2 Xenocho

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 10:16 AM

2. Always start with gear steps followed by left or right click. This gives that particular skill bonus damage plus you get a buff for sa and aspd. Then continue normal attack to connect into overcharg. However the damage bonus is not carried to overcharge. Start with debuff using flow through. Then. Use skills that deal the highest damage first and continue.

3. I would recommend kidney blow aspd, overheat aspd, flow through cd and beatdown damage. Beatdown isn't the highest damage but you most likely use this most often due to convenience.

5. Ruina is difficult to play but extremely rewarding if done right. You need to know the boss hit box and positioning after attack and suitable attack Windows. You have a egg shell and SA buff but without the above, it is difficult to land a full damage overcharge (easily above 20k% and above). However the bulk of this damage comes at the end of the combo, which may take up to 5-8 seconds. Therefore this class is slower in dealing damage as compared to Raven and such.

There are not that many ruina players let alone good ones. If you are still interested we can discuss further.

Edited by Xenocho, 14 October 2016 - 10:16 AM.


#3 inchik

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 10:30 AM

View PostXenocho, on 14 October 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

2. Always start with gear steps followed by left or right click. This gives that particular skill bonus damage plus you get a buff for sa and aspd. Then continue normal attack to connect into overcharg. However the damage bonus is not carried to overcharge. Start with debuff using flow through. Then. Use skills that deal the highest damage first and continue.

3. I would recommend kidney blow aspd, overheat aspd, flow through cd and beatdown damage. Beatdown isn't the highest damage but you most likely use this most often due to convenience.

5. Ruina is difficult to play but extremely rewarding if done right. You need to know the boss hit box and positioning after attack and suitable attack Windows. You have a egg shell and SA buff but without the above, it is difficult to land a full damage overcharge (easily above 20k% and above). However the bulk of this damage comes at the end of the combo, which may take up to 5-8 seconds. Therefore this class is slower in dealing damage as compared to Raven and such.

There are not that many ruina players let alone good ones. If you are still interested we can discuss further.


Nice...
I have created a Machina when it was released but only manage to lvl32 as I left DN for a while...
I'll check what you have said later when I got home, and familiarize myself on the skill names too...

I'll feedback after that..

Thanks much...

#4 ShineFactor

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 02:37 PM

View PostXenocho, on 14 October 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:



3. I would recommend kidney blow aspd, overheat aspd, flow through cd and beatdown damage. Beatdown isn't the highest damage but you most likely use this most often due to convenience.


I wouldn't recommand flow through CD plate as the shockwave lasts long enough for it to be a permanent debuff without CD reduction, as for beat down dmg plate, I used to go dmg as well before frontal OC addition, you'll quickly find yourself out of skills when using it and even more when you actually gotta dodge, but thats up to your preference, I'd rather use leap over CD instead of flow through, beat down, any can be good despite CD being better due to multiple scenarios

I also recommand you ditch knee kick ex and get AS plate for it, it's a great filler, why not taking ex ? Because it's bugged AF and isnt as flexible as non ex (airborn usage is impossible with ex because of bugs)
I usually use knee kick as a filler when flow through's debuff is about to run out, so this way I can act fast out of it, debuff again, and use better skills

Edited by ShineFactor, 14 October 2016 - 02:42 PM.


#5 inchik

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 03:47 PM

View PostShineFactor, on 14 October 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

I wouldn't recommand flow through CD plate as the shockwave lasts long enough for it to be a permanent debuff without CD reduction, as for beat down dmg plate, I used to go dmg as well before frontal OC addition, you'll quickly find yourself out of skills when using it and even more when you actually gotta dodge, but thats up to your preference, I'd rather use leap over CD instead of flow through, beat down, any can be good despite CD being better due to multiple scenarios

I also recommand you ditch knee kick ex and get AS plate for it, it's a great filler, why not taking ex ? Because it's bugged AF and isnt as flexible as non ex (airborn usage is impossible with ex because of bugs)
I usually use knee kick as a filler when flow through's debuff is about to run out, so this way I can act fast out of it, debuff again, and use better skills

thank you.. I'll consider that too..

#6 Xenocho

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 07:12 PM

View PostShineFactor, on 14 October 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:



I wouldn't recommand flow through CD plate as the shockwave lasts long enough for it to be a permanent debuff without CD reduction, as for beat down dmg plate, I used to go dmg as well before frontal OC addition, you'll quickly find yourself out of skills when using it and even more when you actually gotta dodge, but thats up to your preference, I'd rather use leap over CD instead of flow through, beat down, any can be good despite CD being better due to multiple scenarios

I also recommand you ditch knee kick ex and get AS plate for it, it's a great filler, why not taking ex ? Because it's bugged AF and isnt as flexible as non ex (airborn usage is impossible with ex because of bugs)
I usually use knee kick as a filler when flow through's debuff is about to run out, so this way I can act fast out of it, debuff again, and use better skills

Very sound advice. I'll consider when I restart my ruina's life :)

#7 Jakielyn

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 04:44 PM

As for Knee-kick EX, bit more Air time and Chase/Re-position so why not?

Plates:
Aspd - Overheat, Kidney Blow, and Flying Knee-Kick
CD - Beat Down(Damage before)

Posted Image
The 2nd slot is just for checking CD(Leap Over) and remembers when there's a multi-attack that need to be blocked.
But just stays in slot 1. Mostly I just rely on memory.

Quote

BD= Beat Down
LO= Leap Over
KB= Kidney Blow
KB-Ex = Kidney Blow Ex
OH= Overheat
OC= Overcharge

Spoiler
Hope this helps. Some parts are obvious but ehh.

#8 ShineFactor

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 10:22 PM

View PostJakielyn, on 17 October 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

As for Knee-kick EX, bit more Air time and Chase/Re-position so why not?

Plates:
Aspd - Overheat, Kidney Blow, and Flying Knee-Kick
CD - Beat Down(Damage before)

Posted Image
The 2nd slot is just for checking CD(Leap Over) and remembers when there's a multi-attack that need to be blocked.
But just stays in slot 1. Mostly I just rely on memory.



Spoiler
Hope this helps. Some parts are obvious but ehh.

Knee kick ex isn't worthy at all, not only because you'll be unsafe during the additional attack but also because using it airborn will completly nullify the normal attack transition and then overcharge, airborn knee kick into overcharge is so much faster and safer than ground version, getting ex will prevent you from doing stuffs like norm atk => knee kick => OC, which has no startup at all and will ensure overcharge to deal dmg as long as it is non ex.

#9 Jakielyn

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 10:41 PM

It's just for utility purpose and nothing more and it's a total waste charging it to Overcharge.
As the damage is just low.
I just connect it with Beyond the Wall.

#10 ShineFactor

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 04:56 AM

... What's the point of plating it if you wont even use it for its dmg ? You should just remove AS plate and use norm atk/jump to cancel knee into btw, you're wasting a plate if thats the kind of use you got for knee kick. And since the frontal OC patch running out of skill is really easy, so you dont wanna pass on such a good filler imo

Edited by ShineFactor, 18 October 2016 - 04:57 AM.


#11 Ciorra

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 05:29 AM

Why noone mention about Leapover -CD plate?
It 's the 2nd strongest skill to charge into Overcharge.

Edited by Ciorra, 18 October 2016 - 05:30 AM.


#12 ShineFactor

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 05:46 AM

View PostCiorra, on 18 October 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

Why noone mention about Leapover -CD plate?
It 's the 2nd strongest skill to charge into Overcharge.

Currently using leap over CD, overheat AS, knee kick AS, kidney AS, and beat down CD on extra slot, yah I recommand leap over CD for the reasons stated above

#13 zuyi

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 06:40 AM

View PostShineFactor, on 18 October 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

... What's the point of plating it if you wont even use it for its dmg ?
(one)
Really don't think there's any benefit from using fishK Plate

View PostCiorra, on 18 October 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

Why noone mention about Leapover -CD plate?
It 's the 2nd strongest skill to charge into Overcharge.
(one)

#14 ShineFactor

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 07:23 AM

View Postzuyi, on 18 October 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:


(one)
Really don't think there's any benefit from using fishK Plate


(one)

Pls ser, a sped up overcharge is more than appreciated for ruina's dps, and if you looked at my few posts, I mention leap over cd along with beat down, cus ruina can now dps faster, but dpsing faster will result in having more downtime, which is why you need fillers like knee kick, and since you dont wanna have to dodge before overcharge or wanna have the time to block/dodge an incoming attack before overcharge, when you gonna use kk as a filler, better make it fast (lol)

Drop dat knee kick ex and embrace the non ex one, norm atk into KK is really satisfying (lol)

Edited by ShineFactor, 18 October 2016 - 07:27 AM.


#15 zuyi

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 07:40 AM

omg the forum autocorrected my F F K to fishK... LOL. I was just saying flying knee kick plate is a bad idea lololol.

#16 Xenocho

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 07:47 AM

Short charge does only 2.5 coefficient versus over charge full 7.5. Wouldn't it be better to rely on the full overcharge for better damage?

Just wanna hear some thoughts from more experienced ruina users.

#17 ShineFactor

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 01:10 PM

View PostXenocho, on 18 October 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

Short charge does only 2.5 coefficient versus over charge full 7.5. Wouldn't it be better to rely on the full overcharge for better damage?



Just wanna hear some thoughts from more experienced ruina users.

Of course full OC will be better than short OC on paper, but how do you land full hits in nests (except on dragons, no prob getting full hits) ?

Short oc, compared to full oc will skip to frontal part which has doubled coefficient for the last 4 hits to compensate the loss of a few hits, this allows to deal about as much dmg as pre 93 cap full hits oc, but it also means that full hits oc is now stronger than before, what I usually do, to deal as much dmg as possible, is letting overcharge go while it doesnt pass through the boss, but this will heavily depends on boss's hitbox and your ability to release left click before oc goes through.

Cancelling oc that way makes your rotation way faster than before, this is why going cd on beat down (extra plate),leap over and getting AS for KK (screw ex) on top of the usual kidney/overheat AS is important in 93 cap

Thing is, if you rely too much on full oc, you will end up missing the frontal part and the 4 doubled last hits, which is like losing 8 hits, short oc, being weaker than current full oc will still ensure you a better dps (esp when you control it well) as you will use overcharge at a faster rate, meaning you can use more skills to overcharge with during debuff time, which is why you need to use everything you got (well... Rip flow up tho.. Just use norm atk with this one when you're really out of skills to gain time).
Thats why including knee kick in your rotation is good, it's still pretty strong when used with OC (about 100m on its own, norm atks included on training golem for frontal oc)

Edited by ShineFactor, 18 October 2016 - 01:32 PM.


#18 Xenocho

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 03:40 PM

View PostShineFactor, on 18 October 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

-shortened

Could you share your approximate skill details in raids?

#19 ShineFactor

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 04:15 PM

View PostXenocho, on 18 October 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:



Could you share your approximate skill details in raids?

I will when I get the time to run idn as I'm really busy with college these days, wait for this week end and if I run, I'll leave my skill details here :)

But to give you an idea, for idn s1, knee kick is indeed in top 10 skills because of how fast it is

Edited by ShineFactor, 18 October 2016 - 04:25 PM.


#20 inchik

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 11:42 AM

Thanks guys... I won't continue the lvl80 machina of mine since it was on the other account.. What I'm gonna do is to use the Old machina I have in my Main account which is currently lvl32.. I will still pursue the Ruina and play it to max level.. in that way I can get hold of the skills you guys mention... I feel odd using lvl80 with all the skills she had.. and I guess it's really the experiece that will best teach you how to chain and use her skill...


Thanks for all the input guys.. very much appreciated..

Edited by inchik, 25 October 2016 - 11:41 AM.