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Kali Awakenings


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#21 Sinfolion

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:12 PM

View PostSot, on 05 November 2016 - 06:00 PM, said:

off-topic but


I never really understood why you seem so triggered whenever you're talking to Erui

IKR (:D)

#22 UltraMega

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 02:00 PM

Skill build for rebalanced awkened SE puhleaaaaaseee~~ ty in advance!!

#23 SorceressHater

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 02:03 PM

Better make your own then share so we can discuss about it

#24 Naerwin

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:12 AM

My personnal view of post-awakening SE is the following :
https://dnskillsim.h...--0-00-----0--0
Kali basic tree is all pretty much essentials and placeholders with soul wind 6 (not like we're gonna use that or despair needles on pve)
Screamer has SE side maxed (self-explanatory), DS side taken only for taking ult, (is it really worth it for lv1 as 15s buff, max it for 21s or not take it at all, that's one point to discuss, it's now only an AS-cdr buff with mediocre dmg)
Grudge formation sadly needs to be maxed to get the awakening system up and running,
spirit twinge and blitz claw are taken, ghost scream and phantom rage dropped because we can and their SP usage is underwhelming right now.
No choices standing out in the SE tree either.

As always, this build is based on my opinion, it is up for discussion and constructive debate. (:>)

#25 Ennemie

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:22 AM

Here's mine:
https://dnskillsim.h...--0-00-----0--0
You don't need to take revenge hand and rampage claw to take the DS ulti.
I took the DS ulti for purposes of burst, like in RDN HC/short nests/fast mechanics
Phantom Guard is a very good skill to take now, you just need to remember to cast it =p
Spirit blow for PVP
Chain claw to level 16 as the dmg is just too good to not get it
Rest pretty much self explanatory :D

#26 GreyRobin

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 05:48 AM

https://dnskillsim.h...--0-00--------0

Rampage claw should be taken for SoP bug. You get almost 12,000% Rampage damage with bug.

21s duration for PA is great in conjunction with Sorc 10% CD reduction buff and awakened snakes.

Don't need soul scream at r11 and don't need the associated awakening (for PvE atleast).

You get more dps potential , especially from the extra wolf/rampage bugs, during PA than you do with DB.

GScream is nice for dropping dummy - that's it. Really it's a personal preference. I don't need my dummy for anything other than to 'distract'.

Twinge keeps you stationary when using Snakes EXI - left-clicking after tumble for twinge keeps you in place instead of moving the full distance of tumble.

I use needles for dungeons and pvp. I'd rather use needles to kill something that's almost dead rather than wasting a long CD skill.

Mana passives are no longer needed, at all. Only skills that have an EX version use mp now.

#27 Naerwin

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 05:24 PM

View PostGreyRobin, on 06 February 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Rampage claw should be taken for SoP bug. You get almost 12,000% Rampage damage with bug.
I you really knew how to use SoP bug, you should know that each of its component has been severely nerfed, if not been corrected, so "taking a skill for SoP bug" is not an argument anymore, sorry. (mad)
Otherwise, I've been curious on the rampage claw being a viable, because of its impracticality (relatively long cast, camlock etc...) when you have fast cds for your core skills like spirit paper and SoP, not to mention even shorter if you use the cling snake cdr.
Your opinion, all ?

#28 Xenocho

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 06:12 PM

View PostGreyRobin, on 06 February 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

Twinge keeps you stationary when using Snakes EXI - left-clicking after tumble for twinge keeps you in place instead of moving the full distance of tumble.
EXI casting cancels all skill animation like how chain claw does. In this case, you can tumble and immediately use Snakes EXi, rending the whole point of using Spirit Twinge to maintain position moot.

Not a screamer player but my comment is highlighted above.

#29 GreyRobin

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:45 AM

View PostXenocho, on 06 February 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Not a screamer player but my comment is highlighted above.

If you were a screamer player you'd know that Snakes EXI doesn't become available until 1s AFTER you cast tumble. You can't cancel the animation of tumble with Snakes EXI. You can, however, cancel the animation of tumble with twinge, and then use Snakes EXI.

#30 GreyRobin

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 10:20 AM

View PostNaerwin, on 06 February 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

I you really knew how to use SoP bug, you should know that each of its component has been severely nerfed, if not been corrected, so "taking a skill for SoP bug" is not an argument anymore, sorry. (mad)
Otherwise, I've been curious on the rampage claw being a viable, because of its impracticality (relatively long cast, camlock etc...) when you have fast cds for your core skills like spirit paper and SoP, not to mention even shorter if you use the cling snake cdr.
Your opinion, all ?

If you really played screamer, you'd know that with the increase of raw dmg  (CM1 and CM2), along with the increase of skill dmg  (Wolf and Rampage), bugged SoP does MORE than it did pre-awakening.

An  unbugged r11 rampage is 4747, while a bugged rampage is  11,868 (not including dmg from SoP). If we include the dmg of the 3 specters, you're at roughly 16,660%. An unbugged SoP (with explosion) sits at 7,672.

R13 wolf is 5973, plus the 40% from ex is 8362. Note: a bugged wolf DOES NOT use the EX dmg. The difference between big and small wolves is 2389, which will be added after.
A bugged wolf (not including dmg from the 3 spectres, and not including totem) is 14,932 + 2389 = 17,321. If we add in the bonus dmg from totem (not totem's own dmg), as well as the 3 specters, we get 27,321%. <---That's more than a Soul Lib that only gets 20 hits.

In terms of practicality, getting rampage just for the sake of rampage isn't a great idea. However, adding rampage into your SoP rotation to bug with SoP is a great idea. The cast time becomes inconsequential in party play. As previously mentioned, you can do far more dmg with the CD reduction buff from PA than you could with DB (even if DB is bugged), and it is 'possible' to use all of your big dps skills AT LEAST twice, including bugged rampage during a 21s PA (of course with more attack speed it become easier to use more skills).

#31 rikolero

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 01:39 PM

When the bug gets fixed,  what then?

#32 GreyRobin

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 03:12 PM

View Postrikolero, on 09 February 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

When the bug gets fixed,  what then?

The bug has been around since her release (quite a few level caps). If they decided to fix it now there wouldn't be any point in playing SE since SD and DS would surpass her. Actually, the only reason she'd be played is because she still has the fun factor, and is still pretty strong in pvp.

#33 Naerwin

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 07:08 PM

View PostGreyRobin, on 09 February 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

-calculation message-
I'll accept your reasoning but I still have some points that bug me :
- you multiply the bugged skill by 2.5 : is it justified by having the regular cast damage (1) and the bugged explosion damage (1.5) ? I'll accept it as that. The ratios have roughed up results for coefficients, not totally exact operations  but it's not that impactful (although it bugged me at first)
- also, is sacrificing the soul generating soul scream passive worth ? otherwise, the only sources for souls are then soul gate and grudge formation which would roughly result in a soul liberation every 25-30s (variable because of cling snake affecting soul gate's cd) : shouldn't we try to max out the soul generation potential and use that 27k % skill as much as possible ?

Now for some questions inherent of your build :
- I guess PA's speed buff eases the use of SoP bug, but does that speed accelerates soul liberation (the start of the cast is most certainly affected, but is the hit count accelerated too ?)
- CM1-2 passive stat buffs aren't as impactful as you think : CM2's matk buff is a compensation due to increase soul's removal, and CM1's 50% INT is a stat increase given to every class during its awakening. Moreover, they are global increases, and won't tip the balance of SoP's bug evolution.

Lastly,

View PostGreyRobin, on 09 February 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

The bug has been around since her release (quite a few level caps). If they decided to fix it now there wouldn't be any point in playing SE since SD and DS would surpass her. Actually, the only reason she'd be played is because she still has the fun factor, and is still pretty strong in pvp.
I'm sorry, but Kali is a class that has always been played for the fun and complexity, they've never been played because they were the easy and broken dps top tier, and probably never will be because of how her classes are made. You also lost a bit of my respect when saying "there wouldn't be any point in playing SE since SD and DS would surpass her." Why do you care since you only play her for the fun and pvp factor ? an awakened Spirit Dancer is also said to be outdps-ing a Soul Eater, and honestly, it should be that way : Soul Eater is meant to have the curse as its main interest for the party, boosting everyone's dps instead of dishing out huge damage on their own, like Spirit Dancer and Dark Summoners do.

#34 GreyRobin

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:26 PM

View PostNaerwin, on 09 February 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

I'll accept your reasoning but I still have some points that bug me :
- you multiply the bugged skill by 2.5 : is it justified by having the regular cast damage (1) and the bugged explosion damage (1.5) ? I'll accept it as that. The ratios have roughed up results for coefficients, not totally exact operations  but it's not that impactful (although it bugged me at first)
- also, is sacrificing the soul generating soul scream passive worth ? otherwise, the only sources for souls are then soul gate and grudge formation which would roughly result in a soul liberation every 25-30s (variable because of cling snake affecting soul gate's cd) : shouldn't we try to max out the soul generation potential and use that 27k % skill as much as possible ?

Now for some questions inherent of your build :
- I guess PA's speed buff eases the use of SoP bug, but does that speed accelerates soul liberation (the start of the cast is most certainly affected, but is the hit count accelerated too ?)
- CM1-2 passive stat buffs aren't as impactful as you think : CM2's matk buff is a compensation due to increase soul's removal, and CM1's 50% INT is a stat increase given to every class during its awakening. Moreover, they are global increases, and won't tip the balance of SoP's bug evolution.

Yes, it is by 2.5. The coefficients were rounded up/down to the nearest 1 I'm pretty sure, so really they're only off by a decimal.

Soul Lib has a 40s CD meaning it's relatively easy to cast grudge and/or gate 2x before it's off CD.

Soul Lib's CAST TIME is not affected by speed (at least the hits aren't). Because of this, YES it does gain more hits from high speed (I'm yelling for the people in the back - most skills don't get more hits from speed). In my personal experience, it is possible to lose 1-3 hits from lag. However, it is possible to "unstuck from current location' to save yourself 2s. Soul Lib will continue it's last hits as long as your character doesn't get hit. Ideally it would be grand to use Soul Lib as soon as it's not off CD, but this just isn't practical.

For one, it shouldn't be used during puppet/grudge because it takes so long to cast. After SL you only have 2s to cast gate/ bug wolf/ creeps/ snakes/ snakes exi/ more creeps/ totem/ bug rampage (obviously not in that order). Also, SL's dmg changes when buffs/debuffs run out, so even if you used during the last 2s of grudge/puppet, the dmg will become lower as those two expire. Since they'll expire anyways, adding SL into your burst really is something to be concerned with. SL is a highly situational skill, unfortunately, and should be used once everything else has been.

On the bright side, something that Soul Lib and BD skills have in common that's quite funny is that it's possible for the skill to continue if you're knocked out of it right at casting (due to lag) and will deal the full hits.

In terms of my response for 'no point in playing SE', that was a troll response for a troll comment. NO kali main has ever played her because of her dps, lol. So what if they get rid of the bug? I'd still use the same build, and other people will still use theirs. From my experience, players who've mained kali for a long time have a love for their character that's incomparable.

#35 GreyRobin

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:39 PM

Some other things I forgot to mention (I'm tired).

Soul Lib is crap on a highly mobile boss. For most mobile bosses, the only time they're stationary is during a very wide AoE attack, so you'll have to tank some dmg using soul lib.

CM1/2 are 'impactful' when considering that every screamer has received a boost of roughly 20-40% just from gaining CM1/2 post-awakening (dependent on gear and whether or not they're SE or DS). Even when considering that it's for every awakened class, kali weapons are the strongest of all classes. A DS with +8 IDNU can have roughly 155k matt while a BD with the same gear is only gonna have around 120k, and a Sally around 110k (possibly less). Obviously I'm not giving the BD int gems or a magic plate, but giving str gems and a dest plate instead.

#36 rikolero

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:47 PM

-snip-

EDIT: never mind

Edited by rikolero, 09 February 2017 - 10:09 PM.


#37 zuyi

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:49 PM

View PostGreyRobin, on 09 February 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

Soul Lib's CAST TIME is not affected by speed (at least the hits aren't). Because of this, YES it does gain more hits from high speed (I'm yelling for the people in the back - most skills don't get more hits from speed). In my personal experience, it is possible to lose 1-3 hits from lag. However, it is possible to "unstuck from current location' to save yourself 2s. Soul Lib will continue it's last hits as long as your character doesn't get hit. Ideally it would be grand to use Soul Lib as soon as it's not off CD, but this just isn't practical.

When you have free time, can you tell how many total hits of SL do you get with
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#38 GreyRobin

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Posted 10 February 2017 - 12:12 AM

I'm probably not the most reliable. In TKN I've had 25 hits with PA + tkn spd buff + RH. However, I've also only had 14 from lag (only PA active).