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The Untold Rules of PvP : Softban & Selfban


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#1 chunyee

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 10:40 AM

There are 2 sensitive things being touched on in PVP regularly and were continuously argued on until today. People always share their own perspective of softban and selfban through experience, consequently dividing them into a lot of weird and hard to follow rules that people set by themselves to other people. This guide serves to explain the functions and differences of the said rules

First, what is softban?

Softban is a player agreed restrictions they put on themselves, it serves to filter skills that give extreme or absolute advantage through the likes of nullifying damage, reducing damage, increasing own attack, recovering hp or immunity to hit states. While it behaves as a player agreement, softban has a general guideline on why a skill should be banned instead of applying just what annoys you. Skills that behave like izuna drop are not banned because they are essential to a class' offensive measures and buffs like the 3 infamous skills in priest tree are essential to the class' survival. To sum it up, while softban follows a general trend, it doesn't mean everything along the lines are banned together

Now what is selfban?

When individuals feel like restricting themselves by not using selected skills, it is called selfban. Selfban in general is a custom restriction with all the freedom you have, you can ban whatever skills you wish on your own side. There are NO STRICT RULES on how selfban works. As opposed to softban, there is no base guideline on how the rules will turn into. Banning a skill as pitiful as elbow drop or a skill as strong as maelstrom howl is all up to the players themselves (as long as you do it on yourself, selfban is not named banyou for a reason)

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Softban list

All
  • Ultimate
Gladiator
  • Breaking point
  • Parry
Moonlord
  • Breaking point
  • Parry
Barbarian
  • Breaking point
  • Battle howl
  • Iron skin
  • Havoc howl
Destroyer
  • Breaking point
  • Battle howl
  • Iron skin
  • Havoc howl
  • Howl charging
  • Crash mode
Dark avenger
  • Breaking point
  • Shadow call
  • Dark avenger (transformation)
Tempest
  • Wise of the owl
  • Rage of the owl
  • Spirit boost
Windwalker
  • Wise of the owl
  • Rage of the owl
  • Spirit boost
  • Showtime
Sniper
  • Wise of the owl
  • Rage of the owl
  • Sylph's aid
  • Camouflage
Artillery
  • Wise of the owl
  • Rage of the owl
  • Sylph's aid
  • Magical breeze
Silver hunter
  • Wise of the owl
  • Rage of the owl
  • Summon falcon
  • Hunter eye
  • Crossbow link
  • Trapper
  • Silver hunter (transformation)
Saleana (Seleana)
  • Mana flow
  • Elemental shield
Elestra (Glaciana)
  • Mana flow
  • Elemental shield
  • Ice barrier
  • Glacial field
Majesty (Obscuria)
  • Mana flow
  • Force mirror
  • Beyond time
  • Steal magic
Smasher (Illumia)
  • Mana flow
  • Force mirror
  • Beyond time
Guardian
  • Block
  • Heal
  • Aura restoration
  • Stance of faith
  • Iron will
  • Divine punishment
  • Guardian force
Crusader
  • Block
  • Heal
  • Aura restoration
  • Stance of faith
  • Iron will
  • Divine punishment
  • Judge's power
Inquisitor
  • Block
  • Heal
  • Aura restoration
  • Healing relic
Saint
  • Block
  • Heal
  • Aura restoration
  • Healing relic
  • Great heal
Adept
  • Summon alfredo
  • Cocktail
  • Summon slime
  • Ice palm
Physician
  • Summon alfredo
  • Cocktail
  • Summon slime
  • Ice palm
  • Heal shower
  • Poison strike
  • Slime pool
Shooting star
  • Summon alfredo
  • Mecha duck
  • Gattling gun tower
  • Cannon tower
  • Ice pump tower
  • Summon buster
Gear master
  • Summon alfredo
  • Mecha duck
  • Gattling gun tower
  • Cannon tower
  • Ice pump tower
  • Chain saw tower
Dark summoner
  • Phantom guard
  • Spirit of genie
  • Summon puppet
  • Soul gate
  • Resent area
  • Grudge formation
  • Increase soul
  • Sadism pleasure
Soul eater
  • Phantom guard
  • Spirit of genie
  • Summon puppet
  • Soul gate
  • Resent area
  • Grudge formation
  • Increase soul
Blade dancer
  • Phantom guard
  • Spirit of genie
  • Ecstatic dance
Spirit dancer
  • Phantom guard
  • Spirit of genie
  • Ecstatic dance
Ripper
  • Fade
  • Dedicate shadow
  • Dedicate crow
  • Arsonist
Raven
  • Fade
  • Dedicate shadow
  • Dedicate crow
  • Umbra
Light fury
  • Chakra energy
  • Chakra ring
  • Blessing of ajna
  • Summon shadow
  • Healing of ajna
  • Pact of ajna
  • Chakra miracle
Abyss walker
  • Chakra energy
  • Chakra ring
  • Blessing of ajna
  • Summon shadow
  • Healing of ajna
  • Pact of ajna
  • Incarnation of the dark
Flurry (Boadicea)
  • Hornet's touch
  • Harmonize
  • Erratic power
  • Scar maker
  • Will maker
Sting breezer (Valkyrie)
  • Hornet's touch
  • Harmonize
  • Erratic power
  • Scar maker
  • Will maker
Defensio
  • Overhowl
  • Overclock
  • Air shove
  • Beyond the wall (buff only)
  • Overboost
Ruina
  • Overhowl
  • Overclock
  • Air shove
  • Beyond the wall (buff only)
  • Overboost

Edited by chunyee, 05 December 2016 - 01:49 AM.


#2 BlackShower

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 11:21 AM

wat is pvp?

#3 Glacie

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 12:52 PM

Lol softban is long dead. Its not just because of no honor. Its just because 93 cap too many OP skills and there's no point anymore (around 50 cap already getting difficult).


But if you having a willing opponent to spar with softban then good for you. A for effort.

(honestly though, I don't even think the general pub would even practice what is softban at all; maybe only amongst friends)

Edited by Glacie, 25 November 2016 - 01:04 PM.


#4 chunyee

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 01:22 PM

View PostGlacie, on 25 November 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Lol softban is long dead. Its not just because of no honor. Its just because 93 cap too many OP skills and there's no point anymore (around 50 cap already getting difficult).


But if you having a willing opponent to spar with softban then good for you. A for effort.

(honestly though, I don't even think the general pub would even practice what is softban at all; maybe only amongst friends)
There is a reason why this thread is in EU, I wouldn't waste time to explain the goal of softban to pubs in SEA that couldn't grasp the idea since you had just shown one of the examples already

Softban should be treated as a different dimension of PVP since it is a rule applied to change how PVP would be, class balance getting broken or whatever will never make softban redundant. Remember it should be softban changing PVP and not the other way round

Edited by chunyee, 25 November 2016 - 01:23 PM.


#5 Glacie

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 01:30 PM

View Postchunyee, on 25 November 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

There is a reason why this thread is in EU, I wouldn't waste time to explain the goal of softban to pubs in SEA that couldn't grasp the idea since you had just shown one of the examples already

Softban should be treated as a different dimension of PVP since it is a rule applied to change how PVP would be, class balance getting broken or whatever will never make softban redundant. Remember it should be softban changing PVP and not the other way round

Wow, okay. I didn't know it was still a thing in EU @.@

Props to those who still practise it faithfully.

#6 Dargunz

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 02:17 PM

I think the main benefit a softban list gives, is that players can get better at a faster rate. It gives players a playground where they can get familiar with solid PvP mechanics a lot easier (instead of getting overwhelmed). Since it's not selfban, thus having a set amount of rules, you could kind of expect the other to follow a similar set of rules when playing the game. Of course, not everyone will use softban, and I honestly couldn't care less about that since I can't expect my opponent to hold back now that EU is mostly dead. But still, I think it's nice to have.

Just don't expect that everyone will follow it, and don't complain about it if your lobby didn't specifically state that you are playing softban.

#7 booyah

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 07:08 PM

Learn all your skills, know what are overpowered and self-ban them to improve on your basic skills such as dodging. (cool)

if you are playing with a softban-build/playstyle, make sure to properly mention in your room title that you are playing soft-ban. Don't get mad when a player goes all out in your room if you havn't. (shame)

#8 Sambal

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Posted 27 November 2016 - 06:35 PM

This is how pvp is supposed to be played. And someone here said sb is dead. why is softban dead? Now that there are more op skills, It only makes sense to play more softban from now on.
Or shouldnt these op awakening skills be softbanned, because 'they are essential to a class offensive measures'?
Eitherway a mixture of soft & selfban is the way to go now

Edited by Sambal, 27 November 2016 - 07:03 PM.


#9 chunyee

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 12:54 AM

Updated with softban list

#10 chunyee

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:26 AM

Update :
  • Moment evasion removed from the list
  • Chakra heal removed from the list
  • Sacred hammering removed from the list

Edited by chunyee, 05 December 2016 - 01:50 AM.


#11 Dargunz

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 12:52 AM

I honestly think that class buffs are better listed under selfban as a whole with a few exclusions. (same way some 50s are considered softban, but not all of them. They are mainly selfbanned)

With the recent changes to skills like Guardian Force (Guardian), Beyond the Wall (Patrona) and Charging Howl (Destroyer), I don't think these deserve to be under softban either, anymore. Their main feature, which was the infinite SA, was removed and small HP buffers aren't worth softbanning the skills over. Look at Awakened Deep Straight (Gladiator). That skill grants more HP to Gladiators than those other 3 skills provide.

I don't agree with softbanning Steal Magic (Obscuria) either. The skill has a fairly large animation lock and it is only able to maintain the stolen buff for 16 seconds (It does not extend the duration of the buff past the maximum either)

Heal (Cleric) doesn't deserve to be softbanned either. The amount of HP healed is almost non-existent and it wastes 3 SP.

Gonna be adding more later.

Edited by Dargunz, 05 December 2016 - 12:53 AM.


#12 chunyee

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 03:00 AM

Currently debating skills :
  • Breeze call dance + Illusion dance
  • Mechanic mode gattling gun
  • Mechanic mode cannon
  • Mechanic mode ice pump
  • Mechniac mode chain saw


#13 booyah

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 06:03 AM

Not trying to break your party here, but this type of discussion was done in NA and their list was ultimately thrown out of the window. Even SEA/CDN/KDN has accepted that self-ban is the way to go.

Now before i am going to be termed as an outsider and driven out, hear my 2cents.

Class designs in 93 cap have gone to such an extent that a list such as this will only complicate things for some classes. People will eventually bring in their own biases towards their class that will make the final list favoring the classes that have spoken out while severely handicapping classes that are quiet/low population further driving their population down.

if the pvp scene is to be nurtured, it is best that it be allowed to evolve on its own. Self-ban guidelines should be referenced instead of a softban while explicitly mentioning that the list is to be used at one's own discretion and not to be forced (sadly, history has shown that any list WILL be forced onto newcomers).

A softban list's purpose shouldn't be to balance the game or ban unreasonable skills, its to allow a player to learn the most basics of PvP in an environment that allows them to learn. Atleast that was the purpose of softban when it was created.
if you guys are turning it into a balancing tool, have fun discussing. It will only divide players and make your final list inconsistent and make it blatantly obvious that it favors certain classes.

if you guys want to do, you can make a list of commonly self-banned skills for classes. That in my opinion will allow for a diversity of play-styles while also improving the skills of the playerbase.

Peace out. This will be my last reply to this thread.

Edited by booyah, 06 December 2016 - 06:05 AM.


#14 chunyee

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 10:31 AM

View Postbooyah, on 06 December 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

Not trying to break your party here, but this type of discussion was done in NA and their list was ultimately thrown out of the window. Even SEA/CDN/KDN has accepted that self-ban is the way to go.

Now before i am going to be termed as an outsider and driven out, hear my 2cents.

Class designs in 93 cap have gone to such an extent that a list such as this will only complicate things for some classes. People will eventually bring in their own biases towards their class that will make the final list favoring the classes that have spoken out while severely handicapping classes that are quiet/low population further driving their population down.

if the pvp scene is to be nurtured, it is best that it be allowed to evolve on its own. Self-ban guidelines should be referenced instead of a softban while explicitly mentioning that the list is to be used at one's own discretion and not to be forced (sadly, history has shown that any list WILL be forced onto newcomers).

A softban list's purpose shouldn't be to balance the game or ban unreasonable skills, its to allow a player to learn the most basics of PvP in an environment that allows them to learn. Atleast that was the purpose of softban when it was created.
if you guys are turning it into a balancing tool, have fun discussing. It will only divide players and make your final list inconsistent and make it blatantly obvious that it favors certain classes.

if you guys want to do, you can make a list of commonly self-banned skills for classes. That in my opinion will allow for a diversity of play-styles while also improving the skills of the playerbase.

Peace out. This will be my last reply to this thread.
And you need to understand, a softban list like this was never expected to be followed often in the first place

Firstly, softban is indeed harsh on certain match ups that people would go with selfban all the time. Heard of the 1 duck 1 tower meta? It was never allowed in softban, people go with it because they pity the performance of engineers. If anyone would tell you that was softban they are wrong, it was selfban. It was a win-win situation only because both sides agree on this type of rule

What if someone SPECIFICALLY turn the game into a softban game? You will go nowhere with a randomly generated list that differs from the expected bans of other people. This is why a softban list should be made, it shouldn't be enforced but at the very least, define softban itself. A well defined softban list not only standardizes the involved gameplay alone, it helps people understand what would be considered extremely cheap/unfair to develop their own selfban mindset easier

Also, it prevents wews from randomly calling holy bolt a softban skill

This softban list is just a minor help if succeed without a doubt, but hey, at least softban can be defined in the end, selfban is purely something that exist with no form at all

#15 Adalline

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 06:37 AM

guys, could you please explain why so useless skill (from my point of view) as harmonise is forbidden for Lancea ? is there smthng that I don't know about this skill ?
ty

#16 Kuru

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 07:21 AM

View PostAdalline, on 06 January 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

guys, could you please explain why so useless skill (from my point of view) as harmonise is forbidden for Lancea ? is there smthng that I don't know about this skill?
ty

Ain't harmonize the skill that cranks their AS out the ass? Might be getting my skill names mixed up, wouldn't know as I gave up on Lencea long ago

On the note of this thread -


Is softban a good idea? In my opinion, yes.

Can it be forced? No, and it should never be forced onto people.

Is anyone going to follow SB anymore? No, the amount of people who join my room titled "Softban" and ask "What is Softban" or "What is selfban" and continue to disregard it after being informed is infuriating. Overall I've just accepted by this point that no one will follow softban and the only reason I'll play it at this point is because I wish to improve how I play still.

Do I think creating this list is going to work? No, NA went through all the paces of gathering the top PvPers in the community at the time and getting them to discuss what would and wouldn't work as a softban list. The list was successful for quite a few caps and made PvP a lot more interesting but has been commonly accepted as no longer useful in 93 cap.

Edited by Kuru, 22 February 2017 - 07:21 AM.