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Updated Dark Summoner Skill Build?


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#1 Axolotls

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:30 PM

Getting tired of my salaena so i wanted to try out kali and dark summoner appealed to me but unfortunately i have 0 knowledge of kali , hence the question . Thanks guys ^^ (sorry if it's been posted already i could only find old ones )

#2 zuyi

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:42 PM

I use this build:
https://dnskillsim.h...--0---0--00--00

A word of warning, DS is one of the weakest classes in game, it's hard to count the classes that DS can currently out-damage. So if you're hoping for good/decent/spectacular damaging classes, DS isn't the one.

edit -

The post-awakening build will be quite different, but I assume CC will give a free reset or auto reset awakening classes.

Edited by zuyi, 01 December 2016 - 10:44 PM.


#3 Axolotls

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:46 PM

View Postzuyi, on 01 December 2016 - 10:42 PM, said:

I use this build:
https://dnskillsim.h...--0---0--00--00

A word of warning, DS is one of the weakest classes in game, it's hard to count the classes that DS can currently out-damage. So if you're hoping for good/decent/spectacular damaging classes, DS isn't the one.

edit -

The post-awakening build will be quite different, but I assume CC will give a free reset or auto reset awakening classes.

Thanks zuyi ! it's fine im just looking to play some new classes for fun , My main characters that i want to build up for dps is artillery and salaena , just making some side classes to play around with because i got nothing to do after dailies and nests on main :P Thanks again

#4 zuyi

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 02:28 AM

Erm, I actually realised that's not the skill build I'm using, it's this one:

https://dnskillsim.h...--0---0--00--00

Only a minor difference but I reckon its a better build.

#5 Axolotls

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 03:47 AM

View Postzuyi, on 07 December 2016 - 02:28 AM, said:

Erm, I actually realised that's not the skill build I'm using, it's this one:

https://dnskillsim.h...--0---0--00--00

Only a minor difference but I reckon its a better build.

Alright luckily it's still lv 30 only :P thanks !

#6 Lindzu

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:08 PM

damn it , just wasted a fast lv80 char to make DS now i know DS is weakest (sorry) hoping for Awakening now

#7 zuyi

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:23 PM

View PostLindzu, on 26 December 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

damn it , just wasted a fast lv80 char to make DS now i know DS is weakest (sorry) hoping for Awakening now

rip u

#8 Axolotls

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 12:37 AM

View PostLindzu, on 26 December 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

damn it , just wasted a fast lv80 char to make DS now i know DS is weakest (sorry) hoping for Awakening now

U can still job change with the scroll from lv 93 level up reward box ! (hat)

#9 GreyRobin

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 07:06 AM

You can CC, but I would recommend getting a HP regen plate for Sadism Pleasure before you decide to CC. The plate removes the heal cap for sadism. It'll be useful for learning mechs/ boss attacks (if you haven't already). Post awakening she will be vastly different as well. Save your 90/91/92/93 boxes until then. DS is weak, but she's practically immortal so she has far more opportunity to attack.

Also Zuyi, not to be rude or anything, but why do you have the Max mp/ mp regen skills for pve?

#10 zuyi

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 07:50 AM

View PostGreyRobin, on 04 January 2017 - 07:06 AM, said:

You can CC, but I would recommend getting a HP regen plate for Sadism Pleasure before you decide to CC. The plate removes the heal cap for sadism. It'll be useful for learning mechs/ boss attacks (if you haven't already). Post awakening she will be vastly different as well. Save your 90/91/92/93 boxes until then. DS is weak, but she's practically immortal so she has far more opportunity to attack.

Also Zuyi, not to be rude or anything, but why do you have the Max mp/ mp regen skills for pve?

Firstly, the build was before latest patch allowing 160 SP in 1st specialization tree, you should browse a bit more before you ask questions.

http://forum.cherryc...80#entry2961039

Secondly, do what with the SP? Max Despair Needle? The only place where making Despair Needle 26/26 instead of 16/26 would have an impact would be training ground, and it'd raise the DPS maybe 1%, besides can't max it either, removing all MP passives will still only bring it up till 22/26. My reason for going for MP passives is because just doing that much means I don't have to get an expansion for the little amount of PvP that I do. Since not having Ghost Scream or Spirit Blow don't make that big a difference for me, I don't 1v1.

Also what build you use depends on your gears, I read your summary on the other thread and while no limit on HP Recovery is nice and all but with my gears and gameplay, I feel comfortable having neither maxed Despair Needle nor a healing skill and I can burst bosses quite well even when I go solo, even on a so called "weak" class.

If I was to nitpick on not having a tertiary damage skill maxed, I'd first question why to not have 4 good damaging skill heraldries on an already well-known weak class and opt to reduce the damage potential by picking a useless heal plate on a highly mobile class with some decent iframe duration.

I don't usually take many pics when I'm playing DS but I remember having this one so just to give you an example, I find no need to max Despair Needle for myself so I dump SP into MP passives to get the minimum SP requisite.

Posted Image

#11 GreyRobin

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 09:47 AM

View Postzuyi, on 04 January 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Firstly, the build was before latest patch allowing 160 SP in 1st specialization tree, you should browse a bit more before you ask questions.

http://forum.cherryc...80#entry2961039

You still have the max mp/mp regen skills in that build. I don't see how the above comment was necessary. Maybe take the time to reflect on your insecurities before entering a public forum; you wouldn't be so offended all the time.

I didn't ask why you don't have DNeedle maxed, I was simply asking why you have the MP passives. I wasn't nitpicking. I seriously wanted to know why you, personally, have them. Thank you for your detailed answer. A simple "I like them for pvp and I don't feel DNeedle needs the SP, even when filling the 45 sp requirement" would have sufficed. I like SW for dungeon spamming and running treasure dungeon, but that's just me.

If you read my other comment, and understand it, how is being able to dps while the rest of the party has to dodge a mech for 10 seconds not a great way to increase a DS's overall dps? Or not having to run back and forth to a safe zone (like during Kodiak's poison cloud) not contribute to a DS's overall dps?

And what's up with your heraldries that you need to use the 3 bonus from expansion for enhancement crests? Three additional skill crests would increase overall dps even more. Something like PA CD, grudge CD, SP regen, etc. I don't see how someone as great as you would need the 0.0005% increase in damage from an intel 3rd line, or would need them for FD 3rd lines since you would have max FD with the basic Ultimate +7 FD 3rd lines.

DS is 'weak' right now, almost all non-awakened classes are. You even called her one of the weakest in the game. How is pointing out that I called her weak a point that you needed to make?

#12 SorceressHater

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 01:10 PM

disgonbegud

#13 zuyi

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 04:51 PM

 GreyRobin, on 04 January 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

If you read my other comment, and understand it, how is being able to dps while the rest of the party has to dodge a mech for 10 seconds not a great way to increase a DS's overall dps? Or not having to run back and forth to a safe zone (like during Kodiak's poison cloud) not contribute to a DS's overall dps?

And what's up with your heraldries that you need to use the 3 bonus from expansion for enhancement crests? Three additional skill crests would increase overall dps even more. Something like PA CD, grudge CD, SP regen, etc. I don't see how someone as great as you would need the 0.0005% increase in damage from an intel 3rd line, or would need them for FD 3rd lines since you would have max FD with the basic Ultimate +7 FD 3rd lines.

I don't bother taking Kodiak's green buff though, not on any char, not in norm and not in HC, I don't see how you need to have unlimited heals to do that. If you actually did 8man IDN HC you'd know relying on such pansy skills isn't a good idea, you get hit a couple times you die regardless of how much you heal. And how is "party dodge for 10s while you DPS" thing related to this? Sadism Pleasure doesn't give iframe, I'm only talking about Sadism Pleasure.

I said it's a waste for me to use Sadism Pleasure heraldry in one of the 4 slots. DS skill details are way too spread-out to use one skill heraldry slot for a healing skill. To me, DS in terms of mobility is similar to Ravens, I can go IDN with 1m or less hp and won't have a problem with it (except for extreme circumstances like lag spike and whatever).

Heraldries are not as much about the 3rd lines as they are about the %s to be honest. And at maxed FD a 20% Damage increase plate only provides a diminished 10% more damage for that given skill.

If sorting them by priority of what plates I'd keep in my top 8, and which as the 3 expanded ones -
Magician
Intellect
Ultimate
Limitation
Attack
Concentration
Wind
Life Vit
--
Bear
Health
Iron Wall


Bear - my Str is almost 50k, maybe more I think, it adds a decent amount of crit damage which increases the overall damage of all my skills
Health and Iron Wall - for defensive purposes.

Though I guess I can remove the last two for a Beast Spirit and a Phantom Claw plate. Though PC is still kinda meh before awakening comes.


Also even though I say heraldry isn't about extra stats, to give you a very basic calculation;
Iit does not give a 0.0005% increase in damage, people don't value third stats enough. A 449 Int plate increases my town MAtk by 900 points or so, should be 1k+ after Increase Soul, probably ~1.5k after awakening and 50% Int CM1 and 25% MAtk CM2. At my current 285k MAtk, it is a 0.4% increase in damage for all skills. 0.4% is way more than 0.0005% just saying. (about 800 times more; 0.4/0.0005)

I see a lot of "geared" people with +13s and stuff, but their PAtk / MAtk are low as hell. It's because their heraldries and talisman are stark naked. My tip; don't take Int, Agi and Str too lightly.

And as you see a 449 Int increases my matk by 0.4% which affects all the multipliers that come after it, so it is basically a 0.4% increase in damage dealt. Say if for example Phantom Claw dealt 5% damage on skill details, that means 5% of your total DPS is Phantom Claw, adding a damage plate to that skill would increase that specific skill's damage by 10%, 10% of 5% = 0.5%. So you see, in the end it'd be worth the same as one puny 449 Int plate.

About the weak part, you don't seem to understand what I was trying to say. If a class is weak, and you want to play competitively on it, you simply cannot afford to waste your available options by opting for something such as "infinite heals". You just need to learn to survive, and honestly with DS, survival is easy.

Also lol I didn't notice the insecurities bit at the start till just now. Honestly, it's not about insecurities. It's just that sometimes people's comments are so short and stupid that it just triggers me. It's like "oh why you take blablabla" and I'm like well what am I gonna do if I don't take it? Max Despair Needle which only does 10m per hit? (see now that's insecure, having to lowkey add in how much damage the skill does to show off).
It's like, if you add the "I use SW for dungeon grinding" or whatever reason you have along with it, it'd have made so much more sense.

Also to be quite frank now that I think about it, PvE to me is pretty much Nests/Raids and honestly, SW or MP Passives both don't matter there because you'd never really cast SW in a nest anyway, even a level 1 Cling Snake does significantly higher damage anyway. So since your question had the "pve" in it, all I could think of in the kali tree being worth taking was DN, and thus whatever I typed beyond that was just me saying why DN is pretty much not a very important skill for me. Now if you think I'm insecure because I show my nest DPS in a response then well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Try to think about it a bit, your original question was "but why do you have the Max mp/ mp regen skills for pve?"
So I'll ask you, high level soul wind or mana passives, tell me, how do either one of them make the slightest difference on a DS going in a nest or raid? There's practically nothing worth using on that tree except Despair Needle.

It's fun to debate with someone when they want to debate and are willingly to share their point of view tbh, your latest post I didn't even notice you were calling me butthurt till I read it one final time and saw the first statement, I was busy responding to the parts which made sense and worth discussing. But honestly your comment before that seems pretty dumb to me. Idk, I get annoyed when people question something but don't give any clues or hints about what alternatives they have in mind, maybe it's just me and my insecurities.

#14 zuyi

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 04:51 PM

also holy shiet that was longer than i though.

#15 GreyRobin

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 08:14 AM

Le sigh. I've been taking Axo into consideration the entire time.

He mentioned that he is bored after doing dailies/nests (pve) and asked about DS. You mentioned it's one of the weakest in the game and that Axo shouldn't be expecting insane dmg or anything. You provided a build (that Axo would use for pve). I asked why you, Zuyi, have the mp passives for pve. I was genuinely curious, and not trying to start a 'debate'. You had an opportunity to provide an answer that would give Axo a little more insight into your thought process as a DS. Instead, you took it as a personal attack.

He mentioned he'd be using the DS for pve and you provided a build - why would you provide a pvp build? (you didn't, but I'm trying to articulate how I came to the assumption of 'pve'). Then you blew the entire thing out of proportion for no reason other than to make yourself feel better by 'trying' to provide valid points for rebuttal of an 'argument' that was never made.

In my response I wasn't referring to iframes when I mentioned 'dps for 10s'. I wasn't even referring to Kodiak's poison cloud when I mentioned the '10s to dps'. I was referring to the fact that there are some cases, however situational, where a regen plate could be useful. I even mentioned Axo could use it to learn mechs, while implying that DS would be vastly different upon awakening. In the other post (question for DS) I mentioned some of the scenarios where it could be 'useful'. You came to your own assumption that I was calling a regen plate the 'gold standard' that all DS should aspire to be. It's not, it is simply useful in some cases. Considering that in both threads the OP was new to DS, a regen plate could be quite useful, even it's only temporarily. The '10s to dps' was referring to mechs like the poison bombs + confuse. It is possible to tank hits while dpsing. It's not necessary, but it is 'useful'.

FINALLY! Someone who understands int 3rd lines! I've seen int users go for mdmg........lol. Like, are people even aware that there are simulators? My comment of 0.00005% wasn't a literal one. I'm hoping you don't think it was. You do realize that my question about your heraldries was rhetorical, right? I don't care about your heraldries, I don't care about your gear. I don't even know you. The fact that you took a 'troll' comment seriously only proves that you do have some insecurities you need to deal with. That's not a bad thing, just know that not everyone has as sinister a motive as you think. I wasn't calling you butthurt. I knew that you took the comment the wrong way, and suggested to reflect a little before assuming everyone is out to get you. Thank you again for your detailed response - it adds quite a bit of insight for Axo and any other new DS players who may or may not have played an int-based class before.

Let me reiterate the point of mp passives and pve again since you brought it up multiple times - I only wanted to know why you personally have the mp passives (i.e. why do you like them or how are they useful for you). I asked about PVE because Axo was asking about a build for pve, and thus, you provided a build he could use for PVE. I wasn't asking why you don't have XYZ instead, I only wanted to know why you have the MP passives. That's it. I also wanted to reiterate this point because I've now pointed out 4 things that you completely misunderstood.

Furthermore, a debate is a discussion where opposing arguments are brought forward. Neither one of us is trying to argue with the other. You just mistook my comments for something else. I'm assuming that you've had your fair share of people who do try to argue with you on a regular basis, and with your insecurities you thought the worst case scenario.

A few things that I would like to 'debate' are:
  • A 20% damage plate. For discussion's sake, assume Skill A does 1m crit. With 100% FD it would be 2m crit. With a 20% dmg plate, and zero FD, it would be 1.2m crit. With 100% FD and 20% plate it would be 2.4m crit. It is still a 20% increase to the skill dmg. I would like to know your thought process on it only being a 10% increase with 100% FD.
  • Since you like to 'debate' semantics, I would also like to know why wasting time dodging attacks contributes more to overall dps, rather than being able to DPS while face-tanking damage. It is possible to dodge everything perfectly, but it's not necessary. It is possible to face-tank the entire time, but it's not necessary. Why  try to argue over semantics if it makes very little difference either way? Shouldn't it be up to Axo to decide how he wants to play DS?
  • When someone heals multiple instances of 900k+ per second, why is your comment of only being able to take 2-3 hits in IDN 8-man a valid point for rebuttal?
  • You have a health and iron wall for 'defensive' purposes. Wouldn't a regen plate cover both of those (a long with the vit plate), and then free up space for 2 more additional ones for skill damage or CD?
I don't mind 'debating' if it could help to enlighten the small number of players reading our posts. If you're only looking to make yourself feel bigger and better, isn't there a support group you could join?

#16 GreyRobin

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 08:26 AM

Also, the only difference in our builds is that I have r6 SW and you have mp passives. Everything else is the exact same.

#17 zuyi

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 03:51 PM

View PostGreyRobin, on 05 January 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

FINALLY! Someone who understands int 3rd lines! I've seen int users go for mdmg........lol. Like, are people even aware that there are simulators? My comment of 0.00005% wasn't a literal one. I'm hoping you don't think it was. You do realize that my question about your heraldries was rhetorical, right? I don't care about your heraldries, I don't care about your gear. I don't even know you. The fact that you took a 'troll' comment seriously only proves that you do have some insecurities you need to deal with. That's not a bad thing, just know that not everyone has as sinister a motive as you think. I wasn't calling you butthurt. I knew that you took the comment the wrong way, and suggested to reflect a little before assuming everyone is out to get you. Thank you again for your detailed response - it adds quite a bit of insight for Axo and any other new DS players who may or may not have played an int-based class before.

I usually don't use the word "butthurt" seriously either, so if you weren't being literal with the 0.0005%, you can assume the same for me when I use "butthurt" in a paragraph.

Let me reiterate the point of mp passives and pve again since you brought it up multiple times - I only wanted to know why you personally have the mp passives (i.e. why do you like them or how are they useful for you). I asked about PVE because Axo was asking about a build for pve, and thus, you provided a build he could use for PVE. I wasn't asking why you don't have XYZ instead, I only wanted to know why you have the MP passives. That's it. I also wanted to reiterate this point because I've now pointed out 4 things that you completely misunderstood.
I take MP passives because I often run low on mana in raids and if there's no dispenser it may get annoying. Heal Relic has a small AoE which isn't very helpful either.


Also uh why are you being Axo's attorney? If he wants to ask something, he will ask. Honestly, don't bother asking questions for others on forums. I've seen people who go as far as making whole class guides and then never check their own thread again. If you're not asking for yourself then don't bother asking, you can neither expect the person you're asking for to check nor the person answering to just simply assume you're asking on behalf of someone.

Furthermore, a debate is a discussion where opposing arguments are brought forward. Neither one of us is trying to argue with the other. You just mistook my comments for something else. I'm assuming that you've had your fair share of people who do try to argue with you on a regular basis, and with your insecurities you thought the worst case scenario.

Why do you keep up bringin dem insecurities lol. Just comparing both our latest posts, I don't even see myself taunting you at all in the post. Why do you feel the need to keep taunting someone and then proceed to call them insecure?

A few things that I would like to 'debate' are:
  • A 20% damage plate. For discussion's sake, assume Skill A does 1m crit. With 100% FD it would be 2m crit. With a 20% dmg plate, and zero FD, it would be 1.2m crit. With 100% FD and 20% plate it would be 2.4m crit. It is still a 20% increase to the skill dmg. I would like to know your thought process on it only being a 10% increase with 100% FD.
You do realise that's not how skill plates work? They increase your "Final Damage" % when you cast that specific skill, that's where the % is added.
If you cast a skill at 0 FD, it gives MAtk * Dark * Skill Board Damage * 1.2 (FD)
If you cast a skill at 100%, it gives MAtk * Dark * Skill Board Damage * 2.2 (FD)

If it deals 1.2m at 0 FD, it's actually 2.2m at full fd, not 2.4m as you stated. There's many posts where diminishing returns effect is explained and how it affects skill heraldries. Easiest to find them would be from SorceressHater's thread "FAQ You".
  • Since you like to 'debate' semantics, I would also like to know why wasting time dodging attacks contributes more to overall dps, rather than being able to DPS while face-tanking damage. It is possible to dodge everything perfectly, but it's not necessary. It is possible to face-tank the entire time, but it's not necessary. Why  try to argue over semantics if it makes very little difference either way? Shouldn't it be up to Axo to decide how he wants to play DS?
Again who cares about Axo, 90% of the threads on the forums don't really bother with the TS after the first 2-3 days. I didn't remember who the TS was until I saw Axo 5 times on your post and I was like uh who is that.
Also, dodging an attack requires 1 tumble, and idc about Axo. I'm responding to your question about why I personally go with what I go with. When a single smack can hit over 1.5-2m, I'd very much want to tumble instead of hitting.
  • When someone heals multiple instances of 900k+ per second, why is your comment of only being able to take 2-3 hits in IDN 8-man a valid point for rebuttal?
You can kinda die 1hit in IDN when you have 0 defense too you. Also no I don't care about Axo, if he wanted to discuss from a beginner's perspective then I'd give a different answer, wasn't your initial question about what I personally pick anyway? Like why I personally pick MP passives etc.
  • You have a health and iron wall for 'defensive' purposes. Wouldn't a regen plate cover both of those (a long with the vit plate), and then free up space for 2 more additional ones for skill damage or CD?
My bad, I actually wrote an explanation there, I don't know why I ended up deleting it. I did say I'll consider using Beast Spirit and Phantom Claw damage plates instead of Health and Iron Wall, really dunno how come it got deleted.

I don't mind 'debating' if it could help to enlighten the small number of players reading our posts. If you're only looking to make yourself feel bigger and better, isn't there a support group you could join?

I'll look for a group, got any suggestions?
(tfw it feels like you're using the "call another person feel-bigger-and-better" to make others sympathize with you feeling small yourself, but hey it's working so not bad either)

Answers in red.

I don't really understand do you want to legit talk about a class or not. Last post I pretty much don't see me trying to taunt or provoke you but if you wanna try and taunt someone every 3rd line you write, how are you any better than the rest of us?


Edit -

May as well add, I prefer to dodge a 2m hit rather than eat it and heal 1m twice from skills because I only have 2m hp, I play with Int+Bear jades which gives me a decent 280% Crit Damage, so yeah my HP is kinda low. And I don't think tumbling for half a second really reduces DPS.

Edited by zuyi, 05 January 2017 - 03:55 PM.


#18 XxXh0lic

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:16 PM

^
Probably because all he did was ask a simple question and you start getting defensive with your skill build.

#19 zuyi

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 09:39 PM

^
mm that'd justify the first post, I didn't even ask about that. I asked about the need to carry on trying to pick a fight with someone after they responded without taunting at all. I wouldn't call him stuck up cuz it's just 2 posts but if it happened again, that'd pretty much be passable as being stuck up, wouldn't it?

#20 Axolotls

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 10:49 PM

CHILL OUT guys i only asked for the skill build (sorry) i support healthy discussions though .

Edited by Axolotls, 05 January 2017 - 10:49 PM.