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Machina Skill Balancing News


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#1 Aegister2

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 12:49 AM

So there's a new patch coming, and a lot of fixing up to do, example, machina. Here's the link of the translated information so far:

http://www.freedompl...off-black-mara/

Lemme hear your opinion on the matter, cause for me, a change in gameplay will definitely happen for both Ruina and Defensio.

#2 ShineFactor

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:51 AM

Well, to have an idea of defensio's playstyle after that boost you can refer to my video, it's pretty much how you gonna dps after that boost, same for steam gathering and overboost (repair gonna make its cd shorter than duration, so no problem)

https://youtu.be/UjuHPzUYlbg

For ruina, main skills'cd are reduced per hit of gear steps, just like taunting blow for defensio, this means the more agressive and fast you juggle between your skills with gear steps, the more you're gonna have your most damaging skills off cd, especially overheat.
The problem I have with this boost so far is still the lack of information mostly for ruina, we don't know if overcharge's charging time is still reduced or not by overboost and if so, will overboost be counted as a main skill and get its cd reduced by each hit of gear steps ? I truly hope so or else ruina is pretty much doomed lol, let's wait for some footage to know

Edited by ShineFactor, 08 December 2016 - 02:26 AM.


#3 PawHammer

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 02:38 AM

Well, my opinion on these changes is:

1) The fact that they got rid of the AGI boost on both ruina and defensio means they will take way less time to rebuff themselves, as it will not be necessary to instanly get 100% charge to deal damage. This is a buff.

2) Gaining 2 steam per gear step makes it easier for defensio to recharge without resorting to overclocking. Ruina already had a similar system, so it's more like a buff for defensio (except now using foot stomp is recommended).

3) Overclocking now recovers HP, and this is a huge buff to standalone defensio and ruina.

4) Steam maximum changed to 20 does not affect us in any way, since steam is no longer necessary to gain damage. Neutral change, except I guess it's faster to recharge now.

-skips all ruina changes because does not play ruina-

5) Changes on overboost are not something I was looking forward to, to be honest. Less action speed, 3/4 less final damage, 45 seconds cooldown with a duration of 35 (god bless repair).  An overall nerf to the EFFECT of the buff. However, they changed magical defence (overall useless stat) to physical defence, which is awesome and you can cast it even if the buff is still active, which means very effective heals thanks to repair. I would say it's a nerf to offence and a buff to defense, which is what defensio needed, basically.

6) Damage ups and cooldown reductions: If they fixed the bug that shoots you in the air while using leap over if you dont cancel the charge, I'm all for this. Anyway, damage ups are always cool in any class, let's just hope they do not make her too DPS-ish.

7) The change to taunting blow EX is the absolute best. This means you can limit yourself to use taunting blow as a combo starter and never worry about detonating it (unless you see an incoming mechanic with iframes) and keeping aggro on you. However, I'm sure pvp players are going to hate this change.

8) New class mastery is good, does overcompensate the nerf to overboost. Now, a defensio can reach 70% final damage without any gears. This is good, but I would had prefered less final damage and maybe HP regeneration when bubbles are to their maximum.

9) This is not a change, but I'm very disappointed to see that defensio's ultimate is still the same suicide button. They could change it to a plain damage reduction buff, or make it ignore summons (which would make it still a bad ult, but usable).

10) Still disappointed to see the bug with skill dragon jades, weapon engraving and beyond the wall will not be fixed. Not even a casting change on Beyond the wall EX for defensio.

11) I don't see any mentions to that buggy ruina skill being fixed, so I guess this is also disappointment on ruina players.

I would say these changes are overall buffs for both classes and may help them become more useable, but there's some obvious oversights in things that needed adressing to. I will be looking forward to this patch, however.

Have a nice day!

#4 Xenocho

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 07:40 AM

If anyone can give an elaboration on how the new over boost helps ruina apart from being able to be rebuffed, please do so. From this thread, ruina players seem to be delighted. I personally think ruina was better before this.

#5 ShineFactor

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 07:50 AM

View PostXenocho, on 08 December 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

If anyone can give an elaboration on how the new over boost helps ruina apart from being able to be rebuffed, please do so. From this thread, ruina players seem to be delighted. I personally think ruina was better before this.

As I said, we need in game footages and tooltips to really know, but I don't see how it's bad when you can reduce main skill's cd and thus having access to overheat way more than before, and that, just by spamming gear steps, the real problem is still about knowing whether overboost is part of the main skills or not for cd reduction purpose, if not, yes, ruina is pretty much doomed, especially with buff wipes, what we also don't know is what happened to overboost's ability to reduce overcharge's charging and duck's cd, this is why we can't tell until a something from kdn comes out

#6 Xenocho

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 07:52 AM

View PostShineFactor, on 08 December 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:



As I said, we need in game footages and tooltips to really know, but I don't see how it's bad when you can reduce main skill's cd and thus having access to overheat way more than before, and that, just by spamming gear steps, the real problem is still about knowing whether overboost is part of the main skills or not for cd reduction purpose, if not, yes, ruina is pretty much doomed, especially with buff wipes, what we also don't know is what happened to overboost's ability to reduce overcharge's charging and duck's cd, this is why we can't tell until a something from kdn comes out

The skill cd reduction is rather small. Given we can rotate skills quite well which do decent damage, I wonder why did they decided to throw in this as well. Ruina problems were mainly cast time related and the skill changes didn't quite help. In fact, it almost felt like dev thinks ruina is on top at the moment and all priority should go to defensio. I am happy that defensio are given more attention but am not happy that ruina wasn't given changes to improve her :(

#7 ShineFactor

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 07:55 AM

If cd reduction works just like defensio, it's gonna be a real joke to reduce overboost's cd lol, description is stating each hit, and once again, wait, who knows they might give overboost plate now...

And tbh, a ninja change can always happen, short oc coeff change never was mentionned in kr's patch note, what if overcharge can be used immediatly without overboost, same for duck and 0 cd, I still agree with you on one point tho, the duration is too demn short.

Edited by ShineFactor, 08 December 2016 - 08:00 AM.


#8 SayangMama

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:28 AM

how in the heck are we gonna gather the first batch of 20 bubble for the first overboost now? considering ducking has cd w/o overboost buff

i imagine something like this:

*inside GTS*
patrona: "wait guys, i need to gather bubble first"
party: "ayt then"

*ded inside nest due to yoloing to reduce overboost cd*
patrona: "wait guys, i need to gather bubble first"
party: "ok, just do it faster"

*party wipe*
patrona: "wait guys, i need to gather bubble first"
party: "..."

#9 Xenocho

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:35 AM

View PostSayangMama, on 08 December 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

how in the heck are we gonna gather the first batch of 20 bubble for the first overboost now? considering ducking has cd w/o overboost buff

i imagine something like this:

*inside GTS*
patrona: "wait guys, i need to gather bubble first"
party: "ayt then"

*ded inside nest due to yoloing to reduce overboost cd*
patrona: "wait guys, i need to gather bubble first"
party: "ok, just do it faster"

*party wipe*
patrona: "wait guys, i need to gather bubble first"
party: "..."
Whole skill balance team clearly dog-loving people.

Edited by Xenocho, 08 December 2016 - 09:35 AM.


#10 SayangMama

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:58 AM

View PostXenocho, on 08 December 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Whole skill balance team clearly dog-loving people.

this whole gathering bubble thing is one of the main reason why i don't do dragon hunt with ruina and devs make it worse (oo;)

#11 XxXh0lic

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 10:19 AM

View PostPawHammer, on 08 December 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

7) The change to taunting blow EX is the absolute best. This means you can limit yourself to use taunting blow as a combo starter and never worry about detonating it (unless you see an incoming mechanic with iframes) and keeping aggro on you. However, I'm sure pvp players are going to hate this change.
Have a nice day!

How does it affect PvP?

#12 PawHammer

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 12:14 PM

View PostXxXh0lic, on 08 December 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

How does it affect PvP?
People are already complaining about taunting blow being overpowered, and if it detonates on its own without you needing to do it, even if you manage to stop the defensio from blowing you up, you blow up anyway after 15 seconds. I'm not a pvp player myself, so don't take this seriously.

About the first batch of 20 bubbles, are you guys 100% sure that the new overclocking does not create steam and only gives health back? Maybe it is not that bad.

#13 Feel

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:20 PM

I think the taunting blow change is only in PvE because if you'll check the pvp section of the that link, nothing was mentioned about taunting blow. It only mentioned the overboost and class mastery. If they also changed pvp taunting blow, I hope that the defensio can still choose to activate the explosion part (the one with long i-frame)

#14 ShineFactor

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 01:34 PM

View PostFeel, on 08 December 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

I think the taunting blow change is only in PvE because if you'll check the pvp section of the that link, nothing was mentioned about taunting blow. It only mentioned the overboost and class mastery. If they also changed pvp taunting blow, I hope that the defensio can still choose to activate the explosion part (the one with long i-frame)

Taunting blow auto trigger isn't applied in pvp, and the right click is still supposed to be there in pve as well

#15 SayangMama

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 03:47 PM

View PostPawHammer, on 08 December 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

About the first batch of 20 bubbles, are you guys 100% sure that the new overclocking does not create steam and only gives health back? Maybe it is not that bad.

it's just an assumption, considering the patch notes said so even though, we all know how ambiguous they are, fishing phrasing
1. removed previous effect
2. both ruina and defensio gain bubble through gear step (it was only ruina)

#16 ShineFactor

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:05 PM

http://bbs.duowan.co...295613-1-1.html

As I thought, too many unlisted changes in the patch note, if someone wanna help with translation feel free to do so, it's a bit tough to understand but so far this I what I get, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :

Overclocking : 1.5% HP per sec (might consider dropping it...)

Main skills (reduced by gear step usage under overboost) : knee kick, kidney blow, overheat

Cm1 : SA buff still there

Max steam will trigger yellow framed gear step (red lightning effect) which are used (I believe on top of normal gear step, but hard to translate) to refresh overboost duration to 35sec again, there is something saying that we should not worry about buff clear but I cant understand it, I dunno if there are any more effects on yellow framed gear step

There is something about a new effect for steam gathering, on top of 2 steams gained per use of gear step, it seems that the hits will create gear step (how many hits dunno tho)

Defensio cm1 : 50% agi 40% FD (?)

Overboost (def) : taunting blow cd reduction from gear step's hit removed ???

Updating...

Edited by ShineFactor, 08 December 2016 - 04:46 PM.


#17 PawHammer

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:40 PM

View PostShineFactor, on 08 December 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Still waiting for defensio changes, if ruina got something like this defensio might as well

I am trying very very hard to unveil what they wrote, please take everything I type with a grain of salt, as a stone can understand more korean than I do:

Apparently defensio gets 40 and not 50% fd on her mastery.

Apparently you can still detonate taunting blow manually, which is good. Taunting blow EX seems to have something weird on it though, about its automatic detonation interfering in manual detonation, but I quite can't get it.

Apparently, you get 3 extra bubbles per successful air shove.

They say something about being very satisfied about air shove EX and something about steam recharge being faster than something else due to this.

They removed the gain steam functionality from overclocking and now it's only HP recovery skill at 1'5% per second (not sure if this is any good though).


-will be updating from what I manage to understand-

#18 ShineFactor

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:49 PM

View PostPawHammer, on 08 December 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:



I am trying very very hard to unveil what they wrote, please take everything I type with a grain of salt, as a stone can understand more korean than I do:

Apparently defensio gets 40 and not 50% fd on her mastery.

Apparently you can still detonate taunting blow manually, which is good.

Apparently, you get 3 extra bubbles per successful air shove.

They say something about being very satisfied about air shove EX and something about steam recharge being faster than something else due to this.
-will be updating from what I manage to understand-

Rip defensio's taunting blow spamming :(

#19 PawHammer

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:52 PM

View PostShineFactor, on 08 December 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

Rip defensio's taunting blow spamming :(
Why is that?

#20 ShineFactor

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:54 PM

View PostPawHammer, on 08 December 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:


Why is that?

From what I read, cd reduction per hit of gear step seems removed, which is why something bout not knowing how good defensio is has been stated