Jump to content


Dark Summoner Question


  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#21 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:08 AM

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

correct me if I'm wrong but the debate lies within you= "DS is all about combo" and handy= "combo is pointless if your damage is low"? ntg to do with the class being decent or not?
uh let's not talk abt who can explain things better shall we cz forum doesnt require us to have a degree in literature and frankly you aren't that great in explaining your opinion either.

There -

View Postzuyi, on 18 December 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

How do you not win if you successfully combo'ed someone for 3 minutes in a 3 minute fight?

You can convert the 3 to 5 for a 5 minute game. And honestly, why are you even getting involved, read the posts made between me and Handyyy, I believe we resolved the matter without having to make more fuss over it, which you are doing right now.

#22 Handyyy

Handyyy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Ritsukax
  • DN, Greenwood

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:09 AM

View Postzuyi, on 18 December 2016 - 01:57 AM, said:

Then what's your problem with me calling DS decent, if you wanna debate about it you don't need to get defensive about it... I never even disagreed with you about the damage or whatever. Do you even notice you're just replying to the parts which I already said were a joke, at this point...
does that mean all class is "decent" in the right hands,thr isint underpowered classes according to tht statement.. DS is decent, decently bad. DS is like trash tier in 1v1 now . That said , we out , We gucchi

Edited by Handyyy, 18 December 2016 - 02:16 AM.


#23 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:19 AM

dude if you really need something to blame for creating a fuss maybe u shud 1st look at your bad judgement and unnecessary "jokes" . . .

and to answer ur qn with my own opinion: you need to 1v1 more so u can witness for yourself that there exists classes who alrdy landed multiple combo rotations yet still fail to win :))

#24 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:41 AM

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

dude if you really need something to blame for creating a fuss maybe u shud 1st look at your bad judgement and unnecessary "jokes" . . .

and to answer ur qn with my own opinion: you need to 1v1 more so u can witness for yourself that there exists classes who alrdy landed multiple combo rotations yet still fail to win :))

Firstly, all jokees are unnecessary to those who are being joked at/about, that's the nature of joke itself. It's upto the receiving party whether they take it seriously or light heartedly which can change how to conversation continues. And you know I did type those small fonts pretty much for the reason to say it's a joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. If you get offended by something that has already been said to not be taken seriously, there's nothing to be done about it.

Secondly, I'm not gonna bother with PvP because it's broken anyway, not worth the time and when I'm busy irl and have to choose either PvE or PvP, I prefer going for PvE, so yeah that's that. Like I've already said idk how many times in this thread itself, I never denied whatever Handyyy wrote. I never said DS was OP. I said they have their things. There's a whole thread discussing String Breezer PvP even though so many people call it a trash class, doesn't mean it's OP but there are ways to play it. And DS is definitely better than SB. But anyway, Like I, again, did say previously, when people ask for PvP, they shouldn't even consider un-awakened classes, most of them can't hold their own against awakened classes. Where's the bad judgement in that lol.

Should I add another joke or are you gonna get upset over it (I would generally write "butthurt" but I'm guessing you wouldn't like that, so I'll use "upset").

#25 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 10:30 AM

Firstly, small font =/= joke. Secondly, if you don't bother with pvp your opinons don't matter lol. cya when you know what you're talking about (joke!)

#26 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 10:41 AM

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

Firstly, small font =/= joke. Secondly, if you don't bother with pvp your opinons don't matter lol. cya when you know what you're talking about (joke!)

This is the last post I'm gonna make for this legit pointless debate -

View Postzuyi, on 18 December 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

Firstly I'll say this, with the way PvP is right now, if you take any PvP related posts (more like what I'm about to type below) seriously, you got issues.
  • If you can't win by combo'ing for 2-3 minutes, combo for 5 minutes. Git gud.

But yeah anyway, I don't really give 2 shts about PvP it is hopelessly unbalanced, anyone who asks about "should I make x y z class solely or PvP" shouldn't even bother with un-awakened classes, there are some that can still manage, but it's still one sided as fuk. Rather just give opinion on PvE, it's pretty pointless to talk about PvP.

K so, yeah, small font =/= joke but when the small font is outright telling you don't take my next sentence seriously then I'd assume that was pretty clearly not meant to be taken seriously? Come on...really?

And sure, if you did notice my first post, I only said DS depends more on combos for 1v1, it was really short, I never gave a detailed opinion there because I don't have one. Next paragraph had more text in it cuz I have more experience in Group PvP. And the ones after that about PvE had more detail to them cuz I know more about that aspect of DS. So yea sure, I always and since forever have maintained that I don't know much about 1 vs. 1 (and again, I didn't even give a detailed opinion about it) ​so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#27 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 11:13 AM

>says you got issues if you take pvp posts seriously
>says if you cant win you need to git gud
>says if you dont want to play underpowered class means you have no skills
>"but don't take it seriously I'm totally joking"

dude, there is a big diff between joking and provoking/mocking. you got issues :/

#28 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 11:35 AM

Aw lava y u do dis, I didn't wanna reply more but this is so good, thanks you help me summarize

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

>says you got issues if you take pvp posts seriously

It's true though

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

>says if you cant win you need to git gud

It's true though

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

>says if you dont want to play underpowered class means you have no skills

It's true though

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

>"but don't take it seriously I'm totally joking"

It is true though

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#29 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 11:46 AM

Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot by admitting that you are exactly what i said you are LOL :')

#30 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 11:56 AM

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

Thank you for shooting yourself in the foot by admitting that you are exactly what i said you are LOL :')

Why do I need to "admit" or deny when it's just on this page or previous page... what even ?_?

Also how is it shooting myself in the foot for:
  • You lose > you need to improve
  • You don't play hard classes > you play easy classes
  • You shouldn't take PvP seriously when it is so unbalanced
Can you even hold a logical debate or do you just go PvP cuz there you can just press press fight die against players and don't need to communicate, because, like, it's all so true I fail to see the basis of your arguments.

Honestly I can write posts with a ton of (:>) (:>) (:>)  and LOL LOL too, but can you actually give logical reason as to why any of what I said was wrong? I can sit here and look at my posts and come up with responses against my own statements, it's not even difficult so I believe you should be able to do so too, but honestly you're not making any posts that make sense. If you want, I can help you come up with responses to what I said myself, feel free to ask.

#31 Handyyy

Handyyy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Ritsukax
  • DN, Greenwood

Posted 18 December 2016 - 01:17 PM

View Postzuyi, on 18 December 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

Can you even hold a logical debate or do you just go PvP cuz there you can just press press fight die against players and don't need to communicate, because, like, it's all so true I fail to see the basis of your arguments.


???? press press fight die ? wtf? you okay m8

#32 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 01:26 PM

-what i meant by admitting/shooting yourself in the foot:
that you have issues bc you cant differentiate between joking and provoking, which has been confirmed by yourself O_o

-You lose > you need to improve:
nobody said they lost though? ppl talking about combo, not win/lose situation. that's where you missed the point.

-You don't play hard classes > you play easy classes:
as i said before, are you saying that all sorceress players have no skills because they're OP?? ironically i saw u said that you still get rekt even when you are using SS/guard. contradicting your logic isn't it?

-You shouldn't take PvP seriously when it is so unbalanced:
games are meant to be enjoyed right? why force urself to play an underpowered class, have a hard time, and later whine abt it in the forums (lol) << Handy's point that you tried to justify even when there's nothing wrong with what he said.

bruh, you can type in small fonts/throw memes all you want but at the end of the day; you cant spit nonsense and expect people to not disagree with you just because you said "it's not meant to be taken seriously". What you think is funny may not come out as a joke to other ppl. Hence, be responsible for what you say rather than hiding behind the "it's a joke" shield.

There, isit elaborate enough for your head to process? haha

#33 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 01:45 PM

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

-what i meant by admitting/shooting yourself in the foot:
that you have issues bc you cant differentiate between joking and provoking, which has been confirmed by yourself O_o

-You lose > you need to improve:
nobody said they lost though? ppl talking about combo, not win/lose situation. that's where you missed the point.

-You don't play hard classes > you play easy classes:
as i said before, are you saying that all sorceress players have no skills because they're OP?? ironically i saw u said that you still get rekt even when you are using SS/guard. contradicting your logic isn't it?

-You shouldn't take PvP seriously when it is so unbalanced:
games are meant to be enjoyed right? why force urself to play an underpowered class, have a hard time, and later whine abt it in the forums (lol) << Handy's point that you tried to justify even when there's nothing wrong with what he said.

bruh, you can type in small fonts/throw memes all you want but at the end of the day; you cant spit nonsense and expect people to not disagree with you just because you said "it's not meant to be taken seriously". What you think is funny may not come out as a joke to other ppl. Hence, be responsible for what you say rather than hiding behind the "it's a joke" shield.

There, isit elaborate enough for your head to process? haha

Passable, better than the post above yours.

If you consider such mild sentences as provocative, it'd be quite easy to bait you, you know. Notice the guy above you, I intentionally typed press press fight die to see how you react, at least you didn't get all butthurt over it, but he did... honestly not even high level provocative.

To be honest, I don't know, for me a person who can combo a lot and dodge well would win even on an underpowered class. I used to spectate ladder matches often in 80 cap, I don't know if you know who Carry was, but he had like 5-6 char in top 10 ladder in HW/SW. While they were good PvP classes, he used Epic grade for most of them and could die if people hit him a few times, but he his K/D was more than 10:1 for most of his char which I'd say is a fair example of skilled combos and dodging winning a game. Also, it is about winning or losing, Handyyy said a DS would die in 3 hits, dying = losing. It was very much about winning or losing.

Calling out on someone for giving up on a weak class does not equate to calling every single person who plays easy/overpowered classes un-skilled, and I never said that. On this point I must say you're not properly interpreting my comment. And it's aimed at a single person, I don't get why you want to bring in "all sorcs", I never called them all bad. As everyone who plays easy class isn't bad, likewise, everyone who plays easy classes isn't good either. I don't see what's the problem with me getting rekt on a Guard if I'm bad at PvP. Also the SS comment was "i would" when discussing with Chelly, I didn't say "I do get rekt" because I don't have an SS. I'm not contradicting my logic because I never said what you interpret me to have said. So you should try and realise that first.

"Games are meant to be enjoyed"
Okay thanks for this, I can address the real issue I have with Handyyy's stupid comment. I thought the opportunity was lost with all the bickering.
You see in one of the previous posts I mentioned the difference between Handyyy and XxXh0lic's posts. There's a new player who came to the forums to ask about a certain class in PvE and PvP, and the first reply he gets is "oh no don't play it, its shyt". Now in my own personal opinion, when questions like these are asked, they need to be answered properly and descriptively so that the asker understands the pros and cons of the class. h0lic's post was short too, but it still did a way better job of explaining what DS is good at, and what she's not good at. You read my first post, see the PvE part, I explained in detail too. Its a class I love, I know it sucks, but I don't want to tell people not to play it just because it is lacking the big numbers, I want to share more about the class so that they can decide for themselves. I still stick with DS for the exact reason you mentioned, "games are meant to be enjoyed". How's he gonna even think if the class is enjoyable or not if he's just told to not bother?

Last part, oh come on stop being a r.etard, I said don't take the next line seriously and then said "git gud". Who the heck honestly take a "git gud" seriously and gets offended by it? If I added a (:&gt;) it'd probably have gotten a different reaction. Like. Come on. "If you can't combo for 3 min, then combo for 5" like honesssltttyyyyyyyyy who the hell gets salty over that? (tense)

#34 Handyyy

Handyyy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Ritsukax
  • DN, Greenwood

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:07 PM

most other classes can do what ds does but better dmg , DS pros(sa break,unlimited lifts) aint even relevant at 93cap anymore <- thats the whole point ...

Edited by Handyyy, 18 December 2016 - 02:08 PM.


#35 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:36 PM

Apparently i need to write in long paragraphs.. ok. isn't it weird that youre purposely trying to be provocative when ppl here are just giving their opinions abt DS?? dont you realize it's all civilized till you came in with your mockery and belittling way of talking? people who dont live in the forums (like myself) wouldnt know that some terms are to automatically be disregarded. maybe you can teach us forum etiquette so nobody will be offended by your "jokes".

also, i dont disagree with you, ofc underpowered class with a good pilot can win. but what we're talking abt here is the amount of EFFORT that one must put to perform equally with a stronger class, for instance:
the same person need to slowly do so much combo with DS, but can just use few SE skills and win faster/easier.

yknow, no matter how good you are you will still make mistakes. what if you use your AE too early and you got locked? iirc chilling mist alone can alrdy take 40% of kali hp. meanwhile DS need to cripple the enemy HP little by little, and most likely the enemy's AE cooldown would alrdy recover before being able to damage so much.

lastly, you dont get to disallow someone to discourage someone to play a certain class. especially since Handy is a 1v1 player he would know more about the bad sh1t regarding DS than you who only play group pvp. He's merely advising TS bc he believe DS is not enjoyable in this cap. no harm in that. o.o

#36 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:47 PM

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Apparently i need to write in long paragraphs.. ok. isn't it weird that youre purposely trying to be provocative when ppl here are just giving their opinions abt DS?? dont you realize it's all civilized till you came in with your mockery and belittling way of talking? people who dont live in the forums (like myself) wouldnt know that some terms are to automatically be disregarded. maybe you can teach us forum etiquette so nobody will be offended by your "jokes".

You don't need to learn forum etiquette, just need common sense to disregard something the writer told you to disregard.

also, i dont disagree with you, ofc underpowered class with a good pilot can win. but what we're talking abt here is the amount of EFFORT that one must put to perform equally with a stronger class, for instance:
the same person need to slowly do so much combo with DS, but can just use few SE skills and win faster/easier.

View Postzuyi, on 18 December 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

In the right hands, DS is still decent for PvP. Though yea SE is probably better

Like, come on, this is in the first paragraph of my first post.......................

yknow, no matter how good you are you will still make mistakes. what if you use your AE too early and you got locked? iirc chilling mist alone can alrdy take 40% of kali hp. meanwhile DS need to cripple the enemy HP little by little, and most likely the enemy's AE cooldown would alrdy recover before being able to damage so much.

Sure, you make mistake on an underpowered class, the repercussions are quite big. That's a fair point. But does that mean you have to just count on yourself committing mistakes in every single fight? Mistakes can be made by the best or the worst, that's a given, I don't think it's a really good point to consider here.

lastly, you dont get to disallow someone to discourage someone to play a certain class. especially since Handy is a 1v1 player he would know more about the bad sh1t regarding DS than you who only play group pvp. He's merely advising TS bc he believe DS is not enjoyable in this cap. no harm in that. o.o

View Postzuyi, on 18 December 2016 - 01:45 PM, said:

"Games are meant to be enjoyed"
Okay thanks for this, I can address the real issue I have with Handyyy's stupid comment. I thought the opportunity was lost with all the bickering.
You see in one of the previous posts I mentioned the difference between Handyyy and XxXh0lic's posts. There's a new player who came to the forums to ask about a certain class in PvE and PvP, and the first reply he gets is "oh no don't play it, its shyt". Now in my own personal opinion, when questions like these are asked, they need to be answered properly and descriptively so that the asker understands the pros and cons of the class. h0lic's post was short too, but it still did a way better job of explaining what DS is good at, and what she's not good at. You read my first post, see the PvE part, I explained in detail too. Its a class I love, I know it sucks, but I don't want to tell people not to play it just because it is lacking the big numbers, I want to share more about the class so that they can decide for themselves. I still stick with DS for the exact reason you mentioned, "games are meant to be enjoyed". How's he gonna even think if the class is enjoyable or not if he's just told to not bother?

I'm not disallowing him from discouraging someone from playing a class. You're being so defensive that you just simply don't even see what I'm trying to say. He can't give a proper explanation about his opinion till the second page, that's what I've been talking about for quite some time.

edited typoes

Edited by zuyi, 18 December 2016 - 02:49 PM.


#37 Handyyy

Handyyy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 406 posts
  • Ritsukax
  • DN, Greenwood

Posted 18 December 2016 - 02:56 PM

Off topic but : do you really judge "Carry" good just cause he has a few char on the top ten list of ladder? If your judging someone being good in pvp by ladder..then, idk anymore lmao

Edited by Handyyy, 18 December 2016 - 02:58 PM.


#38 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 03:16 PM

read: "you cant spit nonsense and expect people to not disagree with you just because you said "it's not meant to be taken seriously""

Well, if you so agree that DS takes so much effort compared to SE then you shouldn't be disagreeing with anything in the 1st place no? fyi people prefer to type short sentences instead of essays like you. Even without elaborating the pros and cons, Handy alrd made a point. The fact is, xxxholic over there can understand Handy's point from the 1st post (and even vouch for it) so what makes it so difficult for you?

#39 zuyi

zuyi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2888 posts
  • zuyi
  • Hermit's Village

Posted 18 December 2016 - 03:19 PM

View PostLavaora, on 18 December 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

read: "you cant spit nonsense and expect people to not disagree with you just because you said "it's not meant to be taken seriously""

Well, if you so agree that DS takes so much effort compared to SE then you shouldn't be disagreeing with anything in the 1st place no? fyi people prefer to type short sentences instead of essays like you. Even without elaborating the pros and cons, Handy alrd made a point. The fact is, xxxholic over there can understand Handy's point from the 1st post (and even vouch for it) so what makes it so difficult for you?

Simply that XxXh0lic does PvP and so he has knowledge about the class. Look at it from the other person's perspective who doesn't have a clue about the class. It doesn't make it difficult for me, it's about how you answer the person asking the questions.

#40 Lavaora

Lavaora

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 236 posts

Posted 18 December 2016 - 03:22 PM

View Postzuyi, on 18 December 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Simply that XxXh0lic does PvP and so he has knowledge about the class. Look at it from the other person's perspective who doesn't have a clue about the class. It doesn't make it difficult for me, it's about how you answer the person asking the questions.

Then I don't see why you are bugging Handy for not re-explaining something that has been explained by xxxholic. That would be nothing but repetitive.