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Kali Skill Co-Efficients And Information


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#21 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:01 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

but hey I'm biased towards DS since I started playing.


No CD for SE skills LOL

SE's DPS seems significantly higher though.. I would say, like SD vs BD? Constant dmg versus burst.

Just to add, the below is a very rough and crude calculation.

Posted Image

Edited by Xenocho, 30 January 2017 - 03:02 PM.


#22 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:16 PM

View PostXenocho, on 30 January 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

~

Yea but DS have almost 100% uptime 30% AS+MS buff as well as -30% CD (in Raids at least), and RH Cd plate is currently not working, but it should be fixed soon hopefully.

Anyway, I wanted to add SE cooldowns but the description of [Awakened] Cling Snake says CD reduction by 5s, now does it reduce Cling Snake's own normal CD by 5s as well or just the CD of SP/BS/SG by 5s when it hits, and does it work with EXi too or not.

I'm just thinking of JC'ing my DS to SE at the end of month and then JC back since there's a free reset scroll in attendance.

Anyway will be going to IDN on Friday so will see how DS DPS is in raid. I went with guildmates for IDN Norm once last week and they had low exp, more of a teaching run. Did 200b+ damage and 113m DPS in that, not using muffin either. So I reckon around ~130m or so in a proper run. Will see how it goes.


P.S.: PC Advent doesn't have a CD, you can use it whenever you get 20 bubbles. And while for SE you can add Chain Claw (2,792% @ 10.5s) in DPS calculation, for a DS it's possible to max both Soul Gate (5,940% @ 28s) and Beast Spirit (5,973% @ 27s). But yeah, DS have a 30% CD reduction for all skills and Se have for Paper/Gate/Beast.

Edited by zuyi, 30 January 2017 - 03:20 PM.


#23 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:30 PM

According to the guide Riko provided, it does not work with instant. Anyway the info I provided is very vague, mostly just throwing in numbers. Accurate comparison cant be made due to the nature of CD reduction for both sides.

Does PA really have 100% uptime? I thought I read -1s per cast of a skill, which will need tons of skill to make effective o.o

#24 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:38 PM

View PostXenocho, on 30 January 2017 - 03:30 PM, said:

According to the guide Riko provided, it does not work with instant. Anyway the info I provided is very vague, mostly just throwing in numbers. Accurate comparison cant be made due to the nature of CD reduction for both sides.

Does PA really have 100% uptime? I thought I read -1s per cast of a skill, which will need tons of skill to make effective o.o

It has a 2~3s downtime if you have CD plate + 900 combined skill level passive.

It's cooldown is reduced by 1s per hit of PC (3s CD) and 2s per hit of CF (21s CD) even though it says 1s in description #lolDescriptions.
1 CF = 15 hits = 30s
7 PC = 8 x 7 hits = 56s

So 1 CF and 7 PC is almost enough, and by the time buff runs out, a second CF is ready too as the buff duration is 21s and so is CF's buffed CD.

edit -

You can see the CD reduction from just CF:

Posted Image

Posted Image

P.S.: Please don't judge me on the abbreviated numbers, it makes life easier when doing damage tests without broken weapons. :v

Edited by zuyi, 30 January 2017 - 03:48 PM.


#25 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:59 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 03:38 PM, said:

-shortened

That means that you will need to cast 7 Phantom Claws? Will that be possible within 21 seconds? :x Just trying to see the full picture here

Edited by Xenocho, 30 January 2017 - 04:00 PM.


#26 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:03 PM

View PostXenocho, on 30 January 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

That means that you will need to cast 7 Phantom Claws? Will that be possible within 21 seconds? :x Just trying to see the full picture here

Just have to spread out other skills properly. Have to go naked in nests and play around for a while to get used to it but it's possible. Also the fact that PC can deal 4.2k% every 3s makes it a not-so-bad skill to use so you don't feel sad about using it.

Edited by zuyi, 30 January 2017 - 04:03 PM.


#27 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:08 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Just have to spread out other skills properly. Have to go naked in nests and play around for a while to get used to it but it's possible. Also the fact that PC can deal 4.2k% every 3s makes it a not-so-bad skill to use so you don't feel sad about using it.
Hmm its interesting. This info cant be deduced from the skill simulator :o Thanks for your input

#28 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:14 PM

View PostXenocho, on 30 January 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Hmm its interesting. This info cant be deduced from the skill simulator :o Thanks for your input

Yeah that's main problem with calculating DPS values for these classes, half the info on sims or in-game descriptions is misleading or missing.

Also, on a side note, it's not really 100% but more like 80~95% uptime depending on whether you have a sorc in the party or not, I guess. Because the cooldown of Deadly Claw (the buff that makes PC 3s) is 40s, 28s is you're using ulti and 24s if you have Meditation buff.

#29 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:20 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

Yeah that's main problem with calculating DPS values for these classes, half the info on sims or in-game descriptions is misleading or missing.

Also, on a side note, it's not really 100% but more like 80~95% uptime depending on whether you have a sorc in the party or not, I guess. Because the cooldown of Deadly Claw (the buff that makes PC 3s) is 40s, 28s is you're using ulti and 24s if you have Meditation buff.

(Would ask for elaboration how 7 PC is cast in 21s but is that too much? Feel free to ignore me LOL Trying to understand the potential of both classes especially since on the other thread the below was mentioned)

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

BD = lots of combo, not the biggest numbers, consistent dps, pure melee gameplay

SD = big numbers, big burst

SE = lots of combo, good debuffer for party on top of being a very good dps herself

DS = better than the above 3 but too bad you don't like them.

I hypothesize that this perma PA to be one of the key factors making DS strong

Edited by Xenocho, 30 January 2017 - 04:21 PM.


#30 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:25 PM

View PostXenocho, on 30 January 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

(Would ask for elaboration how 7 PC is cast in 21s but is that too much? Feel free to ignore me LOL Trying to understand the potential of both classes especially since on the other thread the below was mentioned)



I hypothesize that this perma PA to be one of the key factors making DS strong

Well it has a 3.5 second cooldown... so...

Posted Image

Deadly Claw reduces PC CD from 15s to 5s, and then PA buff makes it 3.5s, 3s if with Meditation. (I'm including meditation everywhere basically cuz I always try and have a sorc in my party unless I'm soloing)

Quote

Because the cooldown of Deadly Claw (the buff that makes PC 3s) is 40s, 28s is you're using ulti and 24s if you have Meditation buff.


About the DPS comparison, no that's just me being salty about him saying he doesn't like DS. cough

Edited by zuyi, 30 January 2017 - 04:28 PM.


#31 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 04:25 PM, said:

Well it has a 3.5 second cooldown... so...

Posted Image

Deadly Claw reduces PC CD from 15s to 5s, and then PA buff makes it 3.5s, 3s if with Meditation. (I'm including meditation everywhere basically cuz I always try and have a sorc in my party unless I'm soloing)




About the DPS comparison, no that's just me being salty about him saying he doesn't like DS. cough

Oh what I thought that skill reduces cd by 10s when cast, meaning its a one off thing. I didn't know it's a reduction of 10 for the entire duration. LOL. Okay then that makes a lot more sense and rather clear now. Thanks again =D

#32 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:34 PM

View PostXenocho, on 30 January 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

Oh what I thought that skill reduces cd by 10s when cast, meaning its a one off thing. I didn't know it's a reduction of 10 for the entire duration. LOL. Okay then that makes a lot more sense and rather clear now. Thanks again =D

I'd be raging like hell if it was a one off thing or some bs for an awakening active skill :'>

#33 Ennemie

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 05:24 PM

Normal cling snake only, and reduces CD of the 3 skills
I don't think it's fair to compare SD to BD, because BD is much worse than SD (from what i've seen and heard)
If I had to compare, I would say saleana vs smasher, with DS being saleana and SE being smasher, saleana being burst and smasher being constant dps, and maybe think of the curse debuff of SE being old-time BT.

#34 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 05:31 PM

View PostEnnemie, on 30 January 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Normal cling snake only, and reduces CD of the 3 skills
I don't think it's fair to compare SD to BD, because BD is much worse than SD (from what i've seen and heard)
If I had to compare, I would say saleana vs smasher, with DS being saleana and SE being smasher, saleana being burst and smasher being constant dps, and maybe think of the curse debuff of SE being old-time BT.

I've not heard of BD being much worse than SD though. Care to give more elaboration?

The key comparison made between those two classes are of burst vs constant dmg, but from what I've seen so far, DS does quite fair constant dmg too.

#35 Ennemie

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 06:14 PM

View PostXenocho, on 30 January 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

I've not heard of BD being much worse than SD though. Care to give more elaboration?

The key comparison made between those two classes are of burst vs constant dmg, but from what I've seen so far, DS does quite fair constant dmg too.
My friend tried it out, he has both SD and BD and hated it so much that he decided to just JC the BD to SD to have 2 SD.
Problems reported was that skill flow was weird (awkward) and the dmg was very underwhelming (50m difference in BTG), also difficulty increased.
I'm not denying that DS is a monster and has higher dps than SE XD
But since there's not much data on BD awakening and I haven't heard anything positive about them, I don't think it's a fair comparison :o

#36 Ennemie

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 06:17 PM

It's a discussion anyway (:])
So far i've heard from 3 people who tried BD and SD awakening, but I'm waiting on the mother of dancers to get back to me (:>)
But yeah, so far I haven't heard or seen anything good being said about BD awakening (no)

edit:

I guess it really depends on personal preference and pilot skills (:>)
"Mother" said the DPS not much difference, like 95% of SD :o
That's good then~~

Edited by Ennemie, 30 January 2017 - 06:36 PM.


#37 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 06:43 PM

View PostEnnemie, on 30 January 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

It's a discussion anyway (:])
So far i've heard from 3 people who tried BD and SD awakening, but I'm waiting on the mother of dancers to get back to me (:>)
But yeah, so far I haven't heard or seen anything good being said about BD awakening (no)

edit:

I guess it really depends on personal preference and pilot skills (:>)
"Mother" said the DPS not much difference, like 95% of SD :o
That's good then~~
95% sounds more plausible actually. Given how bd skills work, they can rotate their high Dps skills with more efficiently now and dish out more than sd in a long run theoretically.

However I agree with your friends remark on difficulty and dislike. The Aoe for the new awakening skill is horrible, maybe the size of lancea's Aoe buff and very easy to miss when the boss moves out. However it's fully iframe which has its benefits like elemental flair.

I think it boils down to playstyle. I don't have a lot of friends to test and compare it for me so I mostly do theoretical comparisons. However I myself own a bd and I don't find it poor at all so I found that statement quite out of place. Thanks for the input btw :)

#38 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 07:17 PM

View PostEnnemie, on 30 January 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

"Mother" said the DPS not much difference, like 95% of SD :o

Posted Image

#39 Haru18

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:47 PM

I need input regarding the increase debuff duration on the stigma of curse and the ease of having more than 1 stigma fired once at time. Is it worth it?

#40 Ennemie

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:49 PM

View PostHaru18, on 30 January 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

I need input regarding the increase debuff duration on the stigma of curse and the ease of having more than 1 stigma fired once at time. Is it worth it?

I don't really understand your question xD