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Kali Skill Co-Efficients And Information


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#41 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:08 PM

View PostHaru18, on 30 January 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

I need input regarding the increase debuff duration on the stigma of curse and the ease of having more than 1 stigma fired once at time. Is it worth it?

No. Brand is a on/off debuff and having multiple does no benefit

#42 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:26 PM

View PostHaru18, on 30 January 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

I need input regarding the increase debuff duration on the stigma of curse and the ease of having more than 1 stigma fired once at time. Is it worth it?

As far as PvE Nests/Raids are concerned, most of the time you're facing a single opponent. And multi-branding a single target doesn't make any difference, so it's not worth investing SP into higher level of Stigma. And it has a 10s CD with 17s Duration so it is fairly good CD:Duration ratio.

Besides, since both Chain Claw or Rampage Claw are very viable filler skills from the DS tree after the boost, they're a much better investment for the remaining SP.


About BD vs. SD I'll comment on the Kali GD thread.

#43 Haru18

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:40 PM

View PostEnnemie, on 30 January 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

I don't really understand your question xD
stigma
lv 1 last 17s shot once
lv 6 last 20s shot twice
lv 11 last 23s shot thrice

I think you might understand it better this way. Does increasing the level of stigma (10sp) for the extra 6s (can do the other skill while the branded status still up) worth it in your opinion?

#44 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:52 PM

View PostHaru18, on 30 January 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

stigma
lv 1 last 17s shot once
lv 6 last 20s shot twice
lv 11 last 23s shot thrice

I think you might understand it better this way. Does increasing the level of stigma (10sp) for the extra 6s (can do the other skill while the branded status still up) worth it in your opinion?



View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

it has a 10s CD with 17s Duration so it is fairly good CD:Duration ratio.


#45 ChellyChi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:31 PM

Thanks for all the inputs~
btw here are some vids for kali btg tests.

Blade dancer


Spirit dancer



Credits goes to Vesmyr

Edited by ChellyChi, 30 January 2017 - 10:32 PM.


#46 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:48 PM

I think BTG videos are a bad medium to "test" a class at that level of gearing to be quite honest. It's just a feel-good thing to kill something in 10-15s when your character's effective PAtk/MAtk values are in the millions

It doesn't really portray the class' DPS capabilities.

One would get asked "how to be you po" for that but there's very little informative value in it.

It would've been a good comparison if someone used gears with average PAtk/MAtk whilst having capped Crit to do a better comparison.

If someone used an ultimate attack which deals 2b damage on a 5b HP target, but has a cooldown of 125s, it wouldn't really show anything about the class's consistent DPS skills whilst making the burst's DPS seem high. (tongueout)

inb4 someone calls me poor again cuz I said that.

#47 nhelraios

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:01 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

I think BTG videos are a bad medium to "test" a class at that level of gearing to be quite honest. It's just a feel-good thing to kill something in 10-15s when your character's effective PAtk/MAtk values are in the millions

It doesn't really portray the class' DPS capabilities.

One would get asked "how to be you po" for that but there's very little informative value in it.

It would've been a good comparison if someone used gears with average PAtk/MAtk whilst having capped Crit to do a better comparison.

If someone used an ultimate attack which deals 2b damage on a 5b HP target, but has a cooldown of 125s, it wouldn't really show anything about the class's consistent DPS skills whilst making the burst's DPS seem high. (tongueout)

inb4 someone calls me poor again cuz I said that.

And your DPS test posts in BTG are different because? Not like BTG itself is a good thing in the first place to test your DPS lol.

#48 ShineFactor

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:08 PM

View Postnhelraios, on 30 January 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:



And your DPS test posts in BTG are different because? Not like BTG itself is a good thing in the first place to test your DPS lol.

Next time just go in btg nekid, if you can afford it that is...

Posted Image

#49 zuyi

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:14 PM

View Postnhelraios, on 30 January 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

And your DPS test posts in BTG are different because? Not like BTG itself is a good thing in the first place to test your DPS lol.

View PostShineFactor, on 30 January 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

Next time just go in btg nekid, if you can afford it that is...

Calm down you two.

All I'm saying is, when you have skills that can deal 1 billion damage in one hit, a golem with a total of 5 billion HP can't be used as a measure to test the class potential.

People would come here to compare different Kalis at their level of gearing, not everyone has full IDNL, +13 weapons and full FD. Seeing a video where the golem gets rekt wouldn't give any knowledge of whether the class is worthwhile for them or not. That's also why I stopped posting BTG DPS ever since I started crossing 200m, which was very long ago. It's simply not a good measure. I only posted the DS one recently because no one else is posting for DS.

You'll notice when I compared SD and BD as well, none of their gears are strong enough to kill golem in under 40 seconds, which is enough for dancers to cast CD reset mechanism multiple times and thus a decent measure of DPS. If my Dancers were more geared, I'd pretty much remove gears to do a proper comparison. If people are seeking information, I believe in giving proper information rather than something that'll make them think "woah zuyi is op".

#50 Xenocho

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:23 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Calm down you two.

All I'm saying is, when you have skills that can deal 1 billion damage in one hit, a golem with a total of 5 billion HP can't be used as a measure to test the class potential.

People would come here to compare different Kalis at their level of gearing, not everyone has full IDNL, +13 weapons and full FD. Seeing a video where the golem gets rekt wouldn't give any knowledge of whether the class is worthwhile for them or not. That's also why I stopped posting BTG DPS ever since I started crossing 200m, which was very long ago. It's simply not a good measure. I only posted the DS one recently because no one else is posting for DS.

You'll notice when I compared SD and BD as well, none of their gears are strong enough to kill golem in under 40 seconds, which is enough for dancers to cast CD reset mechanism multiple times and thus a decent measure of DPS. If my Dancers were more geared, I'd pretty much remove gears to do a proper comparison. If people are seeking information, I believe in giving proper information rather than something that'll make them think "woah zuyi is op".

I agree with this. If you kill in one rotation, obviously using all the burst skills immediately will get highest DPS. However, in actual raids, you will not be able to repeat this... which is why I actually commented on Ren's BTG DPS a long time ago. But I think if you don't 1 wave and take maybe around 30+ seconds which CD most skills, its a somewhat 'ok' comparison? Just my thoughts.

#51 Ennemie

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 11:27 PM

View PostHaru18, on 30 January 2017 - 09:40 PM, said:

stigma
lv 1 last 17s shot once
lv 6 last 20s shot twice
lv 11 last 23s shot thrice

I think you might understand it better this way. Does increasing the level of stigma (10sp) for the extra 6s (can do the other skill while the branded status still up) worth it in your opinion?
Ohhh my bad!
Okay i get it now :D

#52 Xenocho

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 09:47 PM

Just sharing some findings from SE testing since I got my hands on it.

1. Totem is FD based
It seems like the totem's damage increment for SE is FD based, like how Flurry and Dancer work. This does not bode well for FD stackers, with damage plate, Spirit Paper will only get 13.63% damage increment at cap FD, and the same goes for Beast Spirit too. If we look at damage plate's increment to full FD + totem's effect, the plate only increases damage by 8.7%.

In that case, if you were to plate Beast Spirit, I would recommend CD while there seems to be no choice for Spirit Paper but damage plate (and is a key DPS skill in theory too)

2. Full damage SOP per cast
With Awakening's dual hit and EX's 2nd cast, SOP will automatically deal 4x coefficient (Initial cast = 1.0 * 2, 2nd cast = 0.5 + 1.5, where 1.5 is the explosion from SoP debuff's stack). Since this was not mentioned in the skill tree that it would work this way, so I thought of sharing. This also means SoP has the highest DPS of all SE skills at approximately 1085% DPS as long as you cast it off CD. Though, when testing at BTG, the buff was not applied sometimes and therefore the 1.5 explosion did not occur.

I think that's all for now, nothing big. Hope this info was not redundant (or already present in the forums). Cheers

PS. Lazy to save pictures since I tested on a different PC, please forgive me and trust me LOL

Edited by Xenocho, 31 January 2017 - 09:47 PM.


#53 StefSan

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 09:54 PM

View Postzuyi, on 30 January 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Calm down you two.

All I'm saying is, when you have skills that can deal 1 billion damage in one hit, a golem with a total of 5 billion HP can't be used as a measure to test the class potential.

People would come here to compare different Kalis at their level of gearing, not everyone has full IDNL, +13 weapons and full FD. Seeing a video where the golem gets rekt wouldn't give any knowledge of whether the class is worthwhile for them or not. That's also why I stopped posting BTG DPS ever since I started crossing 200m, which was very long ago. It's simply not a good measure. I only posted the DS one recently because no one else is posting for DS.

You'll notice when I compared SD and BD as well, none of their gears are strong enough to kill golem in under 40 seconds, which is enough for dancers to cast CD reset mechanism multiple times and thus a decent measure of DPS. If my Dancers were more geared, I'd pretty much remove gears to do a proper comparison. If people are seeking information, I believe in giving proper information rather than something that'll make them think "woah zuyi is op".

QFT

Especially the gear part. People always use BTG with their IDL+13 and FD chars to test what?
The damage.. yes.. the dmg seems nice.. but for who? less than 5% of the player base.

#54 zuyi

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 09:55 PM

View PostXenocho, on 31 January 2017 - 09:47 PM, said:

~


That's sad to know about the Totem's damage increment. Really a bummer when all the damage increase plates, etc. are FD based. Haven't seen it being mentioned anywhere else either.

On a side note, Machina's Gear Step increment is a flat 20% and not calculated as part of FD right? I remember it increasing my Ruina's damage by practically 20% in nests, but I might be mistaken. Though it'd be weird for a similar natured skill being added for SE's awakening Active and yet work as FD.



Though the Awakened SoP EX is mentioned on the first page

Quote

Branded Target
Total Hits: 4
Total Co-Eff: 4
Individual Co-Eff of every hit: [1 + 1 | 0.5] + 1.5


Total Board Damage @ 12/12 (1,918%): 7,672%
Individual Board Damage of every hit @ 12/12: [1,918 + 1,918 | 959] + 2,877


Note: Casting SoP on a branded target makes the first Specter hit twice and then pressing Normal Attack Button casts the small Specter for a 3rd hit, which activates the additional explosion of 1.5 co-eff.



And for

Quote


Though, when testing at BTG, the buff was not applied sometimes and therefore the 1.5 explosion did not occur.


I think that's just because of the BTG golem's dumb hitbox and random step-backs sometimes hits just go through him doing practically nothing even if they have a big aoe, really annoying when it happens.

Edited by zuyi, 31 January 2017 - 09:58 PM.


#55 Xenocho

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 10:04 PM

View Postzuyi, on 31 January 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

-shortened
Totem overall feels awkward, but its 'something' I guess. Anyway the SE player was not me, just theorycrafting which plates she should wear on her SE.

On the SOP, correct zuyi, you did share. Anyway sorry, that part was a lil redundant. I was surprised at the huge number provided so I tested it anyway and thought of mentioning.

The ruina one should is not FD but raw damage increment of the skill, unknown from where. it's a perfect 20% damage increment despite having the passive FD buff.

Edited by Xenocho, 31 January 2017 - 11:01 PM.


#56 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 11:42 AM

View Postzuyi, on 31 January 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

-nothing!

Hi Zuyi. Trying to get your attention hence the quote.

How fares your Screamers so far in IDN? Can I have your opinion? I have friends whom have tested SE and not found it to be that strong.

#57 zuyi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 01:21 PM

View PostXenocho, on 22 February 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

Hi Zuyi. Trying to get your attention hence the quote.

How fares your Screamers so far in IDN? Can I have your opinion? I have friends whom have tested SE and not found it to be that strong.

I do 130~150m DPS normally, something or the other always goes wrong like someone dc'ing or this and that so I haven't had a clean run yet lol, and I forgot to take screenshots except two runs.

Spoiler

P.S. Not hitting the crystals or dragon on Stage 3 Phase 1

Edited by zuyi, 22 February 2017 - 01:26 PM.


#58 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 01:30 PM

View Postzuyi, on 22 February 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

I do 130~150m DPS normally, something or the other always goes wrong like someone dc'ing or this and that so I haven't had a clean run yet lol, and I forgot to take screenshots except two runs.

Spoiler

P.S. Not hitting the crystals or dragon on Stage 3 Phase 1

Hmm I see, not bad at all. The top 4 skills are quite consistent. I don't think Revenge Hand heraldry will change the DPS much since its quite a low % no?

You may hate this question, I'm sorry ;__; How does DS compare to Dancers? Also, will you be trying SE too?

The reason I ask is because I have yet to see how efficient SE would be in IDN. Meanwhile, a friend tested DS in BTG and also found it inferior to SE, which is weird theoretically. As I do not play these classes, I am unable to test/comment myself (in addition to lacking the experience to handle the class properly too).

#59 ChellyChi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 01:54 PM

View PostXenocho, on 22 February 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:



Hmm I see, not bad at all. The top 4 skills are quite consistent. I don't think Revenge Hand heraldry will change the DPS much since its quite a low % no?

You may hate this question, I'm sorry ;__; How does DS compare to Dancers? Also, will you be trying SE too?

The reason I ask is because I have yet to see how efficient SE would be in IDN. Meanwhile, a friend tested DS in BTG and also found it inferior to SE, which is weird theoretically. As I do not play these classes, I am unable to test/comment myself (in addition to lacking the experience to handle the class properly too).
I tested ds se bd and sd all of them with the same gears and i feel that bd is the best out of them all, however it might be due to me having inferior experience than zuyi, my bd did around 100m~110m while previously my ds was around 80-100.


#60 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 01:56 PM

View PostChellyChi, on 22 February 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

I tested ds se bd and sd all of them with the same gears and i feel that bd is the best out of them all, however it might be due to me having inferior experience than zuyi, my bd did around 100m~110m while previously my ds was around 80-100.

Thanks Chelly. While you're at it, could you also provide info for the other 2 classes to create a comparison of all 4 based on your experience piloting them?

(Time to make you write an essay ;D)

What are the pro and cons of each in your opinion? Point form will suffice!

Edit: Just to add on, it's just knowledge sharing, no right and wrong in this

Edited by Xenocho, 22 February 2017 - 01:57 PM.