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Kali Skill Co-Efficients And Information


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#61 zuyi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:10 PM

Dancers are quite good too, I think they're quite similar. My personal (maybe slightly biased) opinion would be DS > BD > SD in terms of DPS.

Though I dare say that might just be because DS is more bursty than BD, I do around 85~90m DPS on my BD (only ran twice so still not playing very well I dare say) and my BD's gears are vastly inferior compared to my DS (145k Int vs. 115k Str lul), I doubt it'll be much lower if I had full STR talis, heraldries and +15 jades. Also the fact that I'm still using RDNL Chakram for BD.

Should be quite on par I guess, though I'm more than certain that BD > SD. Maybe when we get RuDNL and SD's Praetor + CH can move more than half a bar in IDN, they'll out-do BD again.

I probably won't be trying SE as my DS is pretty much the only char I have a record of never JC'ing until now which I kinda wanna maintain. And not gonna make a new char unless they give another Jakrad's Demise event, I do know someone trashe in EU will be playing SE when they get their awakening, so we can see how SE fares then.

Btw these DPS are with RoB but no Muffin.

Edited by zuyi, 22 February 2017 - 02:12 PM.


#62 ChellyChi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:12 PM

View PostXenocho, on 22 February 2017 - 01:56 PM, said:



Thanks Chelly. While you're at it, could you also provide info for the other 2 classes to create a comparison of all 4 based on your experience piloting them?

(Time to make you write an essay ;D)

What are the pro and cons of each in your opinion? Point form will suffice!

Edit: Just to add on, it's just knowledge sharing, no right and wrong in this

I started off with SE, se dps is pretty good esp from paper, sop, however i feel that there is too much prerequisite such as the debuffs which over time becomes a hassle and i personally do not have other classes which i need to beforehand stack over 6-7 debuffs before dpsing. I also noticed that se awakening active the ghost skill is pretty useless and i find myself not really casting it because its slow, u cant move , and even a normal se rotation is higher than it.

Next i jced to ds, ds is pretty strong, but due to my lack of int gears, i cant really dish out much damage, ( i rmb i was 100k matk lower than zuyi in town). Main dps comes from the phantom claw, and the burst heavily rely on the ability to rotate your skills properly, with the new update , the ulti becomes nearly 100% uptime. I think ds is strong, i would say 2nd strongest besides bd.

I jced to sd next, sd is more burst reliant, BUT i find myself hard to crit most of the time EVEN im at 89% crit.
Sd is strong as his dance is also nearly 80% uptime, but it heavily relies on crit, if no crit, youre basically dealing 3 times lower the damage u should deal.

After that i tried bd, bd is very simillar to gladiator, and the best thing about it is the 3 main big skills have many coefficient , so it does not really heavily rely on crit. And if rotate properly, you can use it almost everytime when your skill rotations ends.
In addition she also have many iframes which can further improve your dps as you dont need to tumble just to dodge it, while u can counter it with other skills, dealing dps while dodging at the same time.

#63 zuyi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:16 PM

View PostChellyChi, on 22 February 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

After that i tried bd, bd is very simillar to gladiator, and the best thing about it is the 3 main big skills have many coefficient , so it does not really heavily rely on crit. And if rotate properly, you can use it almost everytime when your skill rotations ends.
In addition she also have many iframes which can further improve your dps as you dont need to tumble just to dodge it, while u can counter it with other skills, dealing dps while dodging at the same time.

I like that comparison with glads. Really love playing BD now because their reliance on HG was removed and they can play freely utilizing all their skills. Playing melee classes is damn fun.

#64 ChellyChi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:18 PM

View Postzuyi, on 22 February 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:



I like that comparison with glads. Really love playing BD now because their reliance on HG was removed and they can play freely utilizing all their skills. Playing melee classes is damn fun.
Its actually gladi in girl version,
Graze dance and sweet circle is 3slash and fs, while gladi have eva slash, bd have squail flaker, both resets the cd of the above skills and have i frames.

#65 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:19 PM

Thank you very much for your information, from the both of you :) I greatly appreciate it.

View Postzuyi, on 22 February 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

-shortened
With Kouzaku quitting DN, it's hard to find individuals sharing such precise knowledge on Kali. I shall look forward to your matey from EU's opinion on SE :P

View PostChellyChi, on 22 February 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

-shortened
Looks like the playstyle you adopted for those classes look ok, they're not wrong, so I believe the comparison is fair. The crit/nocrit thing shouldn't be that bad over the long run but we usually do notice non-crits more, especially for big skills LOL.

#66 ChellyChi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:22 PM

View PostXenocho, on 22 February 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your information, from the both of you :) I greatly appreciate it.


With Kouzaku quitting DN, it's hard to find individuals sharing such precise knowledge on Kali. I shall look forward to your matey from EU's opinion on SE :P


Looks like the playstyle you adopted for those classes look ok, they're not wrong, so I believe the comparison is fair. The crit/nocrit thing shouldn't be that bad over the long run but we usually do notice non-crits more, especially for big skills LOL.
Although i favor dancers more, but im actually a hypocrite. I would choose a se over all 4 of them because they give extra debuff, which is more beneficial to the team than 1 person alone, 15% extra debuff x 5 dps is equals to 75% extra damage output.

For sd i recall my hammer crusher crit only 20/40 times lmao. Idk why rng fuks me up so bad or im just bad..

Edited by ChellyChi, 22 February 2017 - 02:23 PM.


#67 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:23 PM

View PostChellyChi, on 22 February 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

Although i favor dancers more, but im actually a hypocrite. I would choose a se over all 4 of them because they give extra debuff, which is more beneficial to the team than 1 person alone, 15% extra debuff x 5 dps is equals to 75% extra damage output.

Well yes, the curse is significant in that aspect. Doesn't DS have curse too?

#68 ChellyChi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:24 PM

View PostXenocho, on 22 February 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:



Well yes, the curse is significant in that aspect. Doesn't DS have curse too?
Dont think so

#69 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:27 PM

View PostChellyChi, on 22 February 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

Dont think so

Posted Image

#70 ChellyChi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:29 PM

View PostXenocho, on 22 February 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:



Posted Image
I think they shifted the debuffs to se ex skills and totems
If ds have those debuffs it would be overpowered

#71 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM

View PostChellyChi, on 22 February 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

I think they shifted the debuffs to se ex skills and totems
If ds have those debuffs it would be overpowered

I've just checked. You're right. Based on skill sim, only on Spirit Paper and Summon Totem. Well, it's something for SE I suppose.

#72 zuyi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 02:33 PM

Yeah, byebye curses on DS lol.

If it is was anyone except myself pilotting, I'd totally take SE over any other Kali in my pt. #selfish

#73 Kyoukasama

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 04:26 PM

Several reasons that make me CJ from SD to BD are :
1. Curiousity
2. Awkward awakening skill on SD. Acanthus cannot be cancelled earler because the spirit is not appeared instantly. Hammer crusher iframe is quite good, but i don't like the bad sync when the skill is used together with illusion gaze. The actual dmg hit is faster but the animation feels awakward and that just make me uneasy playing SD.

#74 ChellyChi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 06:21 PM

View PostKyoukasama, on 22 February 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Several reasons that make me CJ from SD to BD are :
1. Curiousity
2. Awkward awakening skill on SD. Acanthus cannot be cancelled earler because the spirit is not appeared instantly. Hammer crusher iframe is quite good, but i don't like the bad sync when the skill is used together with illusion gaze. The actual dmg hit is faster but the animation feels awakward and that just make me uneasy playing SD.
Having the same problem too, and besides that, i noticed i have not been casting acanthus for the past few weeks because i immediately cast hammer crusher instantly without waiting.
Hammer crusher sometimes misses because boss moves forward,

#75 alejenyop

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:57 PM

based from info that i get , there's many cdr reduction towards PA skill for DS awakening , so did PA cdr plate still useful ? or PA will always be uptime when the rotations is correct without the cdr plate, cant test it myself cause my DN still not released the kali awakening (sorry)

#76 Naerwin

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:59 PM

Although I do not have nearly as much gear and dps as you do, I'll do my best to provide returns on SD and SE as soon as Kali awakening patch hits Eu on march 8th (which is also women's day, coincidence (;]) )
I'll probably won't be able to provide useful returns on dps rankings among the Kalis, but I'll do my best to test the awakening changes and how it will change my rotations (probably more SD than SE since mine is IDN run-able, and not my SE (T.T) )
Regarding curse's removal for DS and exclusive to SE, I'm almost happy about it : this was a mechanic built for SE (and exploited by DS just because they could (:]) ), and it's now exclusive and global debuff makes up for SE's lower damage.
I also want to see if Hammer crusher's cast is sufficiently short to be crammed in the burst rotation (which ends with like, ~2s of buffs to spare). I consider Acanthus more like a filler GDB, a thing you couldn't really do before with GDB because you needed the cd for burst rotations, and the Illu gaze awkwardness of Hammer Crusher wouldn't really happen (at least for me) because you'd prefer to have illu gaze up to follow up with it to refresh the cd (I'm not careful enough to cast an illu gaze every 10s, I prefer to keep it for a well placed cdr proc rather than have a 15% as uptime, but that's just me (sorry) )

#77 Xenocho

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:00 PM

View Postalejenyop, on 22 February 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

based from info that i get , there's many cdr reduction towards PA skill for DS awakening , so did PA cdr plate still useful ? or PA will always be uptime when the rotations is correct without the cdr plate, cant test it myself cause my DN still not released the kali awakening (sorry)

Check page 2 of the same thread

#78 zuyi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:02 PM

View Postalejenyop, on 22 February 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

based from info that i get , there's many cdr reduction towards PA skill for DS awakening , so did PA cdr plate still useful ? or PA will always be uptime when the rotations is correct without the cdr plate, cant test it myself cause my DN still not released the kali awakening (sorry)

To get almost full uptime from PA, you will still need both CDR plate and 900 combined level bonus skill. Though using the plate or not also depends on your level of gearing vs. the nests you want to go to. For example, if you can kill bosses fairly quickly you don't really need the CDR plate for PA because you won't be using the skill as much.

If I really had to optimise builds for all nests, I'd only use PA in IDN 8man modes and no other nests though I just use it everywhere cuz lazy.

#79 zuyi

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:05 PM

Btw Xeno I think I forgot to reply on your question about Revenge Hand. It's heraldry may not increase it's damage by a lot, But since it still does around 7~8% damage (normal + ins) I wonder if using it instead of Chain Claw would give better results or not. But then again, I also do feel I'm still not utilizing Chain Claw properly in my rotations. So can't say for sure if that plate would have any effect or not but if they ever fix it, maybe someday we'll find out.

#80 alejenyop

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:13 PM

okay thanks a lot Xenocho and Zuyi (:])