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Is Guardian A Valuable Class Again After Awakening Update?


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#1 Spoon925

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 04:49 PM

i heard the rumor that guardian has improve after the awakening update it is because the GF is now defends on caster HP not party HP?? is the GF no is fix? or it is because Guardian can do a decent damage while supporting the team?? ever since 2016 i am a fanatic guardian class even if guardian has been discriminated at 80 to 93 cap not on the (DDN nest) so im really happy if this is true





--sorry for my english

Edited by Spoon925, 06 March 2017 - 04:51 PM.


#2 rikolero

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 05:37 PM

Yes

#3 Riuga

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 01:46 AM

Yes, no, and not really. You are expected to stack HP for raid support now, which means your damage will be very low. It's enough to solo Abyss dungeons, but that's about it. Your damage will be negligible in a raid, thus it boils down to how well you can tank and support. Playing Guardian is mostly about skill and Internet connection now.

80 to 90 cap discrimination wasn't that bad compared to 70 cap discrimination. Guardians were quite useful during raid explorations, and I would argue that there was even less stigma related to keeping Guardians after the "raid exploration phase" of those caps. There is currently no discrimination 93 cap. The Channel 1 public IDN parties seem to be shouting for Guardians more than any other class. You might still have some trouble getting into Nests since public parties like to maximize DPS, but the situation's already a lot better compared to those 70 cap days.

Eydentity, Cherry Credits, and various other things that make me recommend people not to return to the game after they have already quit aside, I think that you will make for a good Guardian should you return. The problem nowadays is that many Guardians are just playing the class because it is cheaper and 'safer' than playing a Support or DPS. They lack motivation and passion for the class, which often results in sloppy playing, lack of motivation to 'master' and 'fully explore' all the nooks and crannies of the class, and slow learning.

Edited by Riuga, 07 March 2017 - 02:04 AM.


#4 PencilNote

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 03:45 PM

View PostRiuga, on 07 March 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

The problem nowadays is that many Guardians are just playing the class because it is cheaper and 'safer' than playing a Support or DPS. They lack motivation and passion for the class, which often results in sloppy playing, lack of motivation to 'master' and 'fully explore' all the nooks and crannies of the class, and slow learning.
How is this a problem?

The way I see it, as long as your decision in playing a certain class is solid and heartfelt, then by all means go for it. Not everyone needs to be a hardcore gamer to "fully" enjoy the game. They've got their own lives to take care of too, to which is definitely much more important than a virtual character. So I don't see why this is a problem in itself.

#5 Riuga

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 04:12 PM

View PostPencilNote, on 12 April 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

How is this a problem?

The way I see it, as long as your decision in playing a certain class is solid and heartfelt, then by all means go for it. Not everyone needs to be a hardcore gamer to "fully" enjoy the game. They've got their own lives to take care of too, to which is definitely much more important than a virtual character. So I don't see why this is a problem in itself.

View PostRiuga, on 07 March 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

The problem nowadays is that many Guardians are just playing the class because it is cheaper and 'safer' than playing a Support or DPS. They lack motivation and passion for the class, which often results in sloppy playing, lack of motivation to 'master' and 'fully explore' all the nooks and crannies of the class, and slow learning.


#6 PencilNote

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:17 PM

It didn't answer the question on why it's a problem. Actually, in more detail, the question should be: "Why is it that players who lack the motivation and passion for the class is a problem?"

I play as a Guardian from time to time and I certainly lack motivation and passion for said class. My reasons for playing as a Guardian is that I just want to be beefy and have an EZ time at nests blocking everything whilst my teammates do everything else. It's solid and my heartfelt reason on why I play as a Guardian but clearly, by your standards, my reasoning is a problem. Do elaborate.

#7 Riuga

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 02:45 AM

View PostPencilNote, on 12 April 2017 - 09:17 PM, said:

It didn't answer the question on why it's a problem. Actually, in more detail, the question should be: "Why is it that players who lack the motivation and passion for the class is a problem?"

I play as a Guardian from time to time and I certainly lack motivation and passion for said class. My reasons for playing as a Guardian is that I just want to be beefy and have an EZ time at nests blocking everything whilst my teammates do everything else. It's solid and my heartfelt reason on why I play as a Guardian but clearly, by your standards, my reasoning is a problem. Do elaborate.

It seems as though you're focusing too much on the last sentence I wrote and not enough on the sentence before that. Do you just play it because it is cheaper and safer than playing a Support or DPS? Clearly not, because you just admitted that you play Guardian from time to time because you want to be "beefy" and have an "easy time" at Nests while also "blocking everything while [your] teammates do everything else". You have ulterior motives for playing Guardian, yet you lack motivation and passion to master the class. This makes you a casual player, not part of the 'problem' I was talking about over a month ago.

View PostPencilNote, on 12 April 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

Not everyone needs to be a hardcore gamer to "fully" enjoy the game. They've got their own lives to take care of too, to which is definitely much more important than a virtual character. So I don't see why this is a problem in itself.

You do not need to be a hardcore gamer in order to master the subtleties as a Guardian. You simply need to make the most out of whatever experiences you have as a Guardian. It's a common misconception that just because I run one of the most serious raiding teams on this server and that I am the author of a class guide, therefore I must be a hardcore gamer who grinds and farms for hours on end each and every day and tops up abnormal amounts of CC. The reality is that the polar opposite is true. I practically only come online to raid (or other team matters such as recruitment and A&S), I don't farm gold at all, and I would be surprised if I've topped up more than $10 over the past two years combined. I still have a job, Project S to work on, and a band.

#8 PencilNote

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 11:55 AM

DISCLAIMER:
I am in no way picking a fight. I'm simply just curious on Riuga's post regarding his viewpoints on certain players and their motives. Thus, I'm starting a small debate on this. If anything, just read the personal note I left down there to see my stand on this.

View PostRiuga, on 13 April 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

It seems as though you're focusing too much on the last sentence I wrote and not enough on the sentence before that.
Your previous sentences only talk about the technicalities of the Guardian Class.

View PostRiuga, on 13 April 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

Do you just play it because it is cheaper and safer than playing a Support or DPS? Clearly not, because you just admitted that you play Guardian from time to time because you want to be "beefy" and have an "easy time" at Nests while also "blocking everything while [your] teammates do everything else". You have ulterior motives for playing Guardian, yet you lack motivation and passion to master the class.
As so do with everything in life. It's not that black and white, we both know that but the essence of my post is saying that the impression I got with your post is you're dividing the players into 2 straight up categories: Casual or Hardcore. Whilst this isn't wrong in itself, saying that. . .

View PostRiuga, on 07 March 2017 - 01:46 AM, said:

The problem nowadays is that many Guardians are just playing the class because it is cheaper and 'safer' than playing a Support or DPS.

. . .rubs me off the wrong way. Dividing players into 2 categories isn't wrong but calling one side a "problem nowadays" when their reasons for playing a certain class is up to them is definitely mind boggling.

View PostRiuga, on 13 April 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

You do not need to be a hardcore gamer in order to master the subtleties as a Guardian. You simply need to make the most out of whatever experiences you have as a Guardian.
But by your definition, since I lack the motivation and passion for the class, I shouldn't be able to do this?

View PostRiuga, on 13 April 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

It's a common misconception that just because I run one of the most serious raiding teams on this server and that I am the author of a class guide, therefore I must be a hardcore gamer who grinds and farms for hours on end each and every day and tops up abnormal amounts of CC. The reality is that the polar opposite is true. I practically only come online to raid (or other team matters such as recruitment and A&S), I don't farm gold at all, and I would be surprised if I've topped up more than $10 over the past two years combined. I still have a job, Project S to work on, and a band.
I mean, let's be honest here. For a game like Dragon Nest, you'd need to invest on a lot of either time or money to reach the point that you are at right now. I'm not saying what you're doing is bad, all I'm saying is affirming why it's such a common misconception to see you that way; because all actions point to that idea.
_________________
Personal Note:
I think the main problem that this debate presents is miscommunication. I strongly believe I just read your post the wrong way and that a few simple words would've made it clearer relatively for me.

I've seen you a couple of times in game and I'd say you're a pretty chill dude. Our ideals are quite the polar opposite though as you pursue diligence and feats whilst I pursue lounging around and playing with my own slow pace.

Edited by PencilNote, 13 April 2017 - 11:58 AM.


#9 SorceressHater

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 12:10 PM

(Disclaimer: I don't play a Guardian nor any Cleric for that matter, but the issue applies to any class in some sense)

to summarize the debate:

How I understand Riuga's post:

The problem is people who see Guardian as a ticket to a raid team without having much difficulties / effort.
Those who ask the 'what is the most IN DEMAND BUT CHEAP class now???' just for the sake of having a party, then do stupid things / not perform the job because they didn't bother to learn at all.


How you PencilNote is not part of the problem:

You claimed that you try to be beefy and block everything, thus the assumption you are aiming to tank while your teammates DPS safely - which is a Guardian's role.

Now if you are just blocking BUT your teammates still take the aggro, then you are also part of the problem.

Edited by SorceressHater, 13 April 2017 - 12:13 PM.


#10 Riuga

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 12:33 PM

1) I said sentence, not sentences.
2)  Never did I say that I only divide players into only two categories. I actually divide them into 5 when I have to recruit people for the team (Casuals, Regulars, Raiders, Hardcore, and PvP Exclusivists). I stated that you are a casual player. This does not automatically mean that there are only two categories of people. Again, my definition of "Hardcore" is a lot different compared to your definition. Hardcore to me is someone who makes DN a legitimate part-time job, farming for 8 to 12 hours a day (including weekdays), tries to "buy low and sell high" to an abnormal degree, and camps the TH for hours on end. Is this an exaggeration? No. I have legitimately encountered some of these people in my 4 years of playing of this game. This is probably your definition of "No-life". Your definition of "Hardcore" would be somewhere between my definition of "Regulars" and "Raiders". This is a matter of perspective. I usually "hang out" around Regulars and Raiders, thus my standards are a bit higher. You often hang out around Casuals and Regulars, which makes you perceive people to be more "hardcore" than they are compared to the perception of someone such as myself. Once again, I do not consider "having passion and motivation" and "mastering the subtleties of a class" to be "Hardcore" (by my definition of the word). This is something that Regulars and Raiders are capable of.
3) See #2. It is not just two categories.
4) Create a truth table with the last two sentences of my initial argument.

Let X stand for "You just play Guardian because it is cheaper and safer than playing a Support or DPS".
Let Y stand for "You lack motivation and passion for the Guardian class".
Let Z stand for "Therefore, you are part of the 'problem' mentioned earlier". (I have described what the 'problem' is in the last sentence of my initial argument).

(X & Y) = Z
(~X & Y) = ~Z
(X & ~Y) = ~Z
(~X & ~Y) = ~Z

Your particular case is (~X & Y), which equates to ~Z, meaning that you are not a part of the 'problem'.

4) It's easy to see me that way, but just because something is likely does not mean that it is true.

SorceressHater summed it up nicely.

Edited by Riuga, 13 April 2017 - 02:20 PM.


#11 PencilNote

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 04:26 PM

Alright, I get it now. It was a misunderstanding on my part.

Cheers to you guys!

#12 ceruulean

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 05:38 PM

YES GUARD IS WORTH IT!!

https://www.youtube....h?v=FeLVlMohNII

Tank class is publically considered ez to play, ez to gear, and gets carried. A tank has to defend its existence outside of battle. I once joined a nest pt titled "LF>support" on guard, and I got insta-kicked, they didnt even check my gear. Title changed to "LF>Heal." Naturally people who play a tank develop pride and thick skin. It is not wrong or right, but it happens. "If you haven't suffered, you aren't a real tank", similar to people who dislike bandwagoners. It's an unhealthy attitude so I play dps alts to keep balanced.

Actually very few people play tank for ez carry, usually their raid team lacks a tank so someone steps up. But they don't last long in the role. It is hard to find dedicated tank, which makes it all the more exciting when you do.

At first I thought I was crazy until I befriended a tank main, and it turns out he share similar experience. When someone say "play tank get carried ez" or "just need you to spin 1st boss"  it really hurts feelings. I subbed for an idn team where the lead said that. I died to sloppiness because I didn't care. Saint had died beforehand so I was only support, but I don't think it was coincidence that both supports died eventually. I'm not proud of this but I'm only human. When I tell the leader how I felt, he tell me I sucked and compared me to some other guard he ran with. I apologized for my poor performance, and never run with that person again. The leader judged my performance on how much MY hp dropped as a sign of using super-divine-avatar/punishment bubble, however the partymate hp didn't drop at 2nd boss until after I died. So when you play tank, ppl expect you to be useless and to be a savior. When you play a tank, you have to make sure you have understanding friends. The only reason I didn't quit after subbing that team was because the Saint on my team said he notices when I bubble and appreciates the timings.

Every tank has to start somewhere so even if at first u play one to get ez carry, it can become something you enjoy and improve at.

Wow I barely remember why I wrote this anymore. I think someone was curious why Riuga emphasizes passion and devotion to the class and it remind me of that video and my own experiences

#13 jshak28

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 08:52 AM

How to end this argument?

Just play the game, the game is meant for you to have fun and we have different definitions of "fun".  You don't need to be all so pro,expert,skilled, heavy-geared, premium player to enjoy the game. Some people may criticize you, troll you, get mad at you and that's okay. That is part of the game. You just need to find the right people who can make the game fun for you and that's why their are guilds, friend list, party to help you connect with other gamers.

remember when you died at a raging monster? how you failed a mech and caused party wipe? how frustrated you feel for your crappy gears?
remember how you cleared your first HC nest? a lucky open in gacha box? a win in PVP? the long endless practice with friends/guildmates in 8man nests and the triumph of finally clearing it?

The game is meant for US to have fun, enjoy it while it last. (:D)

#14 ChellyChi

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 09:12 AM

Well back on topic.. as a guardian you should be focusing on your party welfare and safety instead of even mentioning about "decent damage". Thats something you let your teammates do not you