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Changing To Defensio Worth It?


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#1 Ozone

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:38 AM

Yo Paw lovers.

So I was thinking for a change of pace and reset myself to Defensio. I have decent gears with 200~220k in town. I consider myself DPS(lol). I'm a pretty bad ass Ruina player. And if you are one bad ass Ruina player, then you know how frustratingly boring this class can get sometimes. What I'd like to know is. . .

-Is it gonna be fun as defensio? Tbh Ruina is all about HYAAAAAA~!!!!(u know what i mean :P)
-Would i be able to dish out dps or do i have to call myself TANK, meaning do i spent on hp or go for damage..
-Still gonna stay bad ass?
-Am I gonna regret after awakening when Ruina becomes OP as fudge(hopefully)?

I know this class is pretty much dead now. But then again, fun to be a underdog. So any opinions?

#2 Feel

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 05:59 AM

Haven't tried Ruina, but I can say that playing Defensio (I'm assuming that this is PvE) would mean relying on a single skill for more than half of your total DPS (About 60-70% in my case). It also requires a bit of setup in order to deal the highest damage possible.

1. Personal opinion, yes it's fun to play as Defensio. I love seeing the Taunting Blow explosions (Especially if you set it up for 4 explosions (love) )
2. Yes, DPS of Defensio is really good. As for tanking, I've not really tried it since I rarely go on raids and I do have a hard time using Beyond the Wall on my teammates.
3. Badass explosion is badass (cool)
4. No one can say since we all do not have information about awakening (sob)

#3 Reizelle

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:23 AM

I have a Defensio but it's not my main so I would like to say first and foremost, take what I say with a grain of salt.

1. Is it gonna be fun being a Defensio?
-Well, "fun" is really subjective so I would suggest that you can create a Defensio in DWC just to get a feel for it. Although it's PVP there, at the very least, you can try her out there. Personally, I find Defensio fun to learn about and play because I like how she does that Taunting Blow (:D) .

2. Would i be able to dish out dps or do i have to call myself TANK, meaning do i spent on hp or go for damage?
-I feel that a Defensio is more of a tank supporter or off-tank because she can deal decent damage but not on equal terms as a Ruina and has various utility skills that can help absorb damage but not as reliable as those of a Guardian and Destroyer.

3.Still gonna stay bad ass?
-Another subjective one. I find it very satisfying to dish out a successful 3x Taunting Blow explosion (still getting the hang of her so can't make it to 4 yet (:D) ) and not having to panic every now and then when a red carpet appears below me.

4. Am I gonna regret after awakening when Ruina becomes OP as fudge(hopefully)?
-Machina users have to wait patiently for any leaks or news on this and is probably gonna come next year based on the CDN update schedule that featured the Awakening and Spin-off characters coming for other classes.

I hope this helps in some way (:D) and have fun with any decision you make.

#4 durako

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:19 AM

Defensio is more relaxing than Ruina. As a person who played her before revamp, I can't say about her DPS. The thing is, tank is only much needed in raids. For Defensio as a main tank, your job will be impossibly hard to try to shield all members of your party. Only with great teamwork you can achieve that. There is less emphasis on dealing damage, a lot more damage reduction/support gameplay. Theoretically, lets say the 1st boss in IDN can stomp dead some party members, you can prevent that easily as defensio.
Taunting blow is badass as hell. Also it is satisfying when you successfully block and see many many many circles on the ground.

Ruina kinda messy now because of needing to upkeep steam to deal damage.

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be
This is CDN flower chang's dps test video. Her stats are 280kpatk and a little FD/element and reaching 60m dps. It's actually a good comparison to my Ruina with about the same stats, which has average dps is around 70m. (assuming good rotation) In that case, it looks like Defensio has the potential to dps the same as Ruina because Ruina's overcharge is very limited in nest against moving bosses and long set up times. Dps-frame must be used wisely T_T

Yu dps or not??? Idk. If I were defensio I would be confused about my role hahaha

Edited by durako, 15 March 2017 - 11:39 AM.


#5 ShineFactor

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:59 PM

I tried and played both ever since their release on cdn, as I already said in another thread, pre revamp fensio was fun to play imo because of gear step cd reduction, which was what ruina was lacking, now that they gave it to ruina, on top of the fact that defensio is all about taunting blow (which is very frustrating imo), she's become a 1 button class and I don't like that, I eventually got bored of her.

Ruina is now the most interesting one imo because of gear step cd reduction really giving her the flexibility she needed (maybe it also comes from the fact that I play with a xb1 controller and like fast inputs as well).

Honestly, if you find ruina boring assuming you master her perfectly as of now, you gonna eventually, just like me, get quickly bored of defensio, as her playstyle is now even more monotone than ruina's pre revamp.

But this is up to what you're looking for, as both have similar dps, fensio being way easier than ruina to use, leading to players saying fensio might be better because they struggle as a ruina.

Edited by ShineFactor, 15 March 2017 - 09:37 PM.


#6 PawHammer

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:13 AM

Seeing your interest, I thought I'd drop some comments on your questions. The general idea would be that defensio is a very, very versatile character that can handle a lot of situations and ruina excels at dealing damage, but is harder to pilot (due to that lack of adaptability and general skill requirements).

-Is it gonna be fun as defensio? Tbh Ruina is all about HYAAAAAA~!!!!

Depends, if you are going the full damage route, since 70% of a defensio's damage relies on a single skill, it is going to be boring. If you want to make her gameplay more varied, you should try to play her as a tank with damage capabilities, which will keep you alert and making an effort all the time.

-Would i be able to dish out dps or do i have to call myself TANK, meaning do i spent on hp or go for damage.

Defensio's damage post-revamp is extremely good, seen defensios dishing out insane ammounts of damage that I never saw from another tank class. As for build, defensio became extremely versatile, so you can build HP, Damage or both, you'll do good in any case as long as you adjust your playstyle for it.

-Still gonna stay bad ass?

It's been scientifically proven that defensios have a badass modifier of x2, x6 if they played from the launch date and did not drop the class when it was underpowered.

-Am I gonna regret after awakening when Ruina becomes OP as fudge(hopefully)?

If you are a DPS player and ruina becomes a better DPS, yes, you will. If you are a tank player, you will not even care. Either way, this awakening is like one year into the future, so don't worry. It's going to be okay.

Have a nice day!

#7 Ozone

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:49 PM

Jeeah. So I decided. I'm gonna stay as Ruina.
I realized I could stay as semi-dps and a obvious badass. ALSO, Ruina sounds way kewler than Defensio. xD

But the badass multiplier 2x is pretty good to miss out, so I made a new Defensio! Maybe I won't be able to utilize my character bound items but o well. Neko Nest!

Thanks guys.

Edited by Ozone, 22 March 2017 - 11:51 PM.


#8 MrKiddy

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 09:46 AM

View PostOzone, on 22 March 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

Jeeah. So I decided. I'm gonna stay as Ruina.
I realized I could stay as semi-dps and a obvious badass. ALSO, Ruina sounds way kewler than OFFensio. xD


let me correct you there (:>) (:>) (:>)

#9 Ozone

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 03:25 AM

After playing a bit of secondary Defensio... I decided imma join the path of Man-to-Maning my team.
Srsly. The only reason I was sticking to Ruina was cuz of Charging gear's damage on normal attacks. WHICH I ALWAYS THOUGHT it was limited to Ruina. So I changed my secondary to Ruina and my main to Defensio...

 MrKiddy, on 23 March 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

let me correct you there (:>) (:>) (:>)

As an OFFensio, I can maintain a lower but constant dps while MAN fighting them bosses which is still purrty badass.

Btw, What are the skills other than Taunting blow I should use to constantly keep aggro to myself? My team's DPS(Saleana, GM) still have a hard time with aggro on nests...
What about the 4x stack Taunting Blow EX? I looked around the internet but I couldn't figure out past 3x?

ALSO, if I +1 Air Shove does it even matter? Or am I better off maxing out +1 Flow Up?

Edited by Ozone, 26 March 2017 - 03:26 AM.


#10 PawHammer

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 09:43 AM

 Ozone, on 26 March 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

1) Btw, What are the skills other than Taunting blow I should use to constantly keep aggro to myself? My team's DPS(Saleana, GM) still have a hard time with aggro on nests...

2) What about the 4x stack Taunting Blow EX? I looked around the internet but I couldn't figure out past 3x?

3) ALSO, if I +1 Air Shove does it even matter? Or am I better off maxing out +1 Flow Up?
1) Basically Taunting blow is your only reliable agro management skill, you should be using it wisely if you want to maximize its effectiveness. Remember that detonating the mark cancels the provocation effect, which means there is a chance that the boss will be on the loose for seven seconds if you are going the full damage route. Some tips:
   - Coordinate with your teammates so that they pay attention after they see/hear the taunting blow explosions.
   - Debuff the boss right after the blows exploded.

2) Gear step + Taunting blow + normal attacks + repair + Taunting blow + normal attacks + Rest of your rotation until taunting blow is off cooldown and then >> Taunting blow + Right click (to detonate) + Repair + Taunting blow (try to be fast) + Right click (second detonation). VERY IMPORTANT: As of the latest revamp, this will only work in sync if you have a Taunting blow Cooldown heraldry.

3) No, it does not matter, but considering the alternative (a very small damage increase in a skill used to debuff and not to damage), why the hell not? It's free heals on a skill you must spam in the tanking route to keep that sweet 20% damage reduction mini-miracle relic up.

#11 Ozone

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 01:17 AM

Thanks for them replies guys. I find defensio pretty interesting to play around with.
Like PawHammer said, it's really versatile.
Now I don't have to worry about constantly keeping my overboost up all the time which really affects your gameplay as becomes more of a burden than an asset as a Ruina.
Repair is too good to be true. It kind of makes a tanker tanker.

My DPS dropped by 5~10% miraculously considering I'm still new to Offensio.


So far Offensio its purrty fun. BOKARAH!! Too good.

Keep pawing n pwning

Edited by Ozone, 01 April 2017 - 01:19 AM.


#12 launcelot

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 07:59 PM

Been trying to jam as many Taunting Blows in one boss... I once achieved over 300M on combined explosion combo at Red Waste Boss...

Seeing them all explode in one go is a funny sight

I managed to do Taunting Blow->Repair->Taunting Blow->Filler skill->Taunting Blow->Repair-Taunting Blow->Detonate

Needs Taunting Blow cd plate
Repait cd plate
Skill ring -> Taunting Blow+1(optional)

It literally blew up the boss in one go.

#13 PawHammer

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 08:44 PM

 launcelot, on 18 April 2017 - 07:59 PM, said:

Been trying to jam as many Taunting Blows in one boss... I once achieved over 300M on combined explosion combo at Red Waste Boss...

Seeing them all explode in one go is a funny sight

I managed to do Taunting Blow->Repair->Taunting Blow->Filler skill->Taunting Blow->Repair-Taunting Blow->Detonate

Needs Taunting Blow cd plate
Repait cd plate
Skill ring -> Taunting Blow+1(optional)

It literally blew up the boss in one go.

You missed one step, however. You need to blow taunting blow twice to cause maximum damage, as ShineFactor stated on a different thread. I made a recent video on the rotation I am currently using for raids, if you are interested. You can check it out here:

https://youtu.be/sbLekUazC84



#14 launcelot

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 09:38 PM

Is there a maximum number of marks? I thought I saw at least 3 or 4 hits when I detonate on the 4th Taunting blow.

#15 Jakielyn

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Posted 18 April 2017 - 10:14 PM

 PawHammer, on 18 April 2017 - 08:44 PM, said:

You missed one step, however. You need to blow taunting blow twice to cause maximum damage, as ShineFactor stated on a different thread. I made a recent video on the rotation I am currently using for raids, if you are interested. You can check it out here:

https://youtu.be/sbLekUazC84

I've-I've been doing it all wrong!
Posted Image

 launcelot, on 18 April 2017 - 09:38 PM, said:

Is there a maximum number of marks? I thought I saw at least 3 or 4 hits when I detonate on the 4th Taunting blow.
Basically this:
You detonate the 3rd TB causing 3x explosions AND you time that 4th TB WHILE previous TB is still exploding resulting to another 4x TB explosions when detonated again.

Instead of single 4x TB explosion. You get 3x then 4x TB explosions.
Posted Image

Edited by Jakielyn, 18 April 2017 - 10:25 PM.


#16 PawHammer

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:59 AM

 Jakielyn, on 18 April 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

Basically this:
You detonate the 3rd TB causing 3x explosions AND you time that 4th TB WHILE previous TB is still exploding resulting to another 4x TB explosions when detonated again.

Instead of single 4x TB explosion. You get 3x then 4x TB explosions.

Couldn't explain it better myself. What I usually do is try and refresh the flow up debuff before landing the third TB, but if you are in raid, you can just add more filler skills to increase your damage output. I also do that to generate more bubbles and refresh my overboost without having to use the manual one (which I save for buff wipes). Handy (heh, handy, because machina...) extra tip I'd do if you are going for damage (after revamp) is to use btw>air shove>beat down ins consecutively and very fast. This will give you a bunch of bubbles which you would not get if you were on the ground doing the rest of your rotation (thus reducing the need to spam gear steps to -drums- ... 0!).

Also, about double explosion, action speed is important. Things like fragment of commitment (the thing you get for having students) or a lancer (boadicea and defensio is a very strong pve ship) will make sure that you manage to do it in time. Alternatively, you can use ducking to speed up without needing this either (for things like Dark Banquet).

Anyway, hope it works for you! Have a nice day.

#17 launcelot

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:31 AM

I'm one enlightened cabbit, thanks! It seems to be at the extreme edge of your attack speed threshold to manage an "Explosion within an Explosion". Having Overboost does not seem to cut it. It has to be a combined attack speed from Overboost, gear steps and a few more.

EXPLOSION-ception

no wait

EXPLO-ception!!

#18 PawHammer

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:40 AM

I am pretty sure I've managed double explosions with overboost only before. I think it's just rapid clicking, not much else that can be done about it. Sometimes, when I calculate the timings wrong, I tend to delay the first explosion as much as I can to allow repair CD reach 0 again, then press it, spam tb button and right click as fast as I can. I'm 100% sure that overboost + duck action speed is more than enough. If you feel like you need more action speed, remember to team up with a Flurry (Boadicea), since they seem to be made to go together (or teach some newbies and buy a fragment of commitment).

#19 lDragonBow

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 02:48 AM

Hi guys,

Thanks I'm enlightened.

Posted Image

EXPLOOOOOOOOSIOOOOOOOOON!

(clap) (clap) (:D) (cool) (cool) (:D) (clap) (clap)

Thumbs Up to the Nekommunity (<3)

Posted Image