Posted 18 April 2017 - 12:56 PM
Posted 18 April 2017 - 12:59 PM
Calculate patk*ele and see which gives higher value
E.g. 100k patk 50% fire = 100,000 * 1.5
Edited by Xenocho, 18 April 2017 - 01:02 PM.
Posted 01 May 2017 - 05:18 PM
Posted 22 May 2017 - 07:11 PM
If ELE cam affect ur Warrior STR or PHY ATK is unclear.
There are two basic ATK/DEF attributes for all classes that is
MGC and PHY.
This is inaccurate.
Everything is clear with calculations as I have demonstrated above. Please do not go around spreading misinformation.
Posted 23 May 2017 - 02:42 AM
Xenocho has given a very good explanation on how ATK stats relate to elemental %.
On the other hand, I'd suggest you go and experiment for yourself. I've done them, and as far as I can tell, there is no conceivable difference between the two setups (element% vs atk%).
In my case, I prefer to just leave my DA with x3 fire and x1 destruction, simply because transferring 4 jades every time I use him is a hassle. Though the basic ATK*ELE% computation would yield a higher result from using an elemental jade, that is definitely not the case. The difference I get from the two setups could easily be attributed to a number of factors, the most prominent would be the ATK stat range which varies by a very significant amount.
Hi, I did some math and research on the matter of ELE% and FD, and although the actual computations are a lot more lengthy and complicated, here's a basic breakdown:
If we take 100% ELE% to give out x2 or 200% (100%+ELE%) of normal damage, and assume that x is your regular PATK.
DMG = x * (100%+ELE%) = x * (1+ELE) ; ELE - is ELE% in fraction form
and growth expressed as
So here's the thing, if we assume you have 126% atm, removing 1 fire jade gives you around 118%. That leaves you with 3 fire jades and 1 slot left for another fire or destruction.
If you use the destruction jade (4.5% to PATK):
PATK = x * 1.045
growth = (PATK - x) / x = ( x * 0.045) / x = 0.045 or 4.5%
From this, we can see that destruction jades will ALWAYS give 4.5% regardless of your current PATK. Now let's examine 118% fire and adding 8% with another fire jade:
g = 8% / (100% + 118%) = 8% / 218%
g = 0.03669 or 3.7%
From that, we'll see that with 118% existing fire, stacking more fire% nets you less gain than stacking PATK via destruction. However, the difference is a meager 0.8% which is hardly anything tangible, but if you're looking for efficiency, then go for that 0.8%
So now that leaves the question, mathematically speaking at what % element should I begin to stack PATK than more of a certain element? The layman's answer is 100%, however if we examine 100%
g = 8% / (100%+100%) = 8% / 20)%
g = 0.04 or 4%
Which is still less than 4.5% given by the destruction jade.
Mathematically, 77.78% is the absolute effective limit of ELE% stacking, anything more than that would yield lesser gains than PATK stacking.
g = 8 / (100+77.78)
g = 0.04499 or 4.499
So does this mean I should stop using elemental jades if I have more than 80% of my own element? I'm not sure, since this is an overly simplified method, I doubt this is exactly how the game mechanics work. But these computations do conform to some of my experiments where I tried going down to as low as 96% dark for raven and still seeing no considerable difference between an additional dark jade and a destruction jade.
Edited by vangeodee, 23 May 2017 - 02:03 PM.
Posted 23 May 2017 - 12:56 PM
-- this ningen clearly don't know that DA is an elemental class.
Edited by Zaetak, 23 May 2017 - 12:56 PM.
Posted 25 May 2017 - 08:42 AM
This is a very dangerous affirmation. Especially because destruction jades are not the only source of attack % in your Gear.
If what you say is true, then all attk % from our gear should act multiplicatively between each other, instead of additively.
Let's make an experiment to see whitch hipotesis is true.
I'll use Grief-Stricken title for this experiment, because it gives a flat 1000 atk and all other stats don't interfere with your attk power.
If we had 0% attk power from gears and skill passives, we should see an increase of 1000 attack power after using grief-Stricken. Every additional attack we see is due to the attk power % we managed to stack and we will be able to calculate it.
First with Grief-Stricken:
404924 - 403178 = 1746
A total of 74.6% extra attack power.
My gears that increases attk % are: double genesis rings, destruction Heraldry, 1.7% spirit, racing helm, racing boots, racing main weapon with 1% engraving, racing sub-weapon with 1% engraving, cold mirage wings and cold mirage full set attk bonus.
Total: 58.7% attk power increase.
As a Blade Dancer I also have 10% attk from class mastery which increases total attack power and does act as a new multiplier:
So 1000(Flat attk from Grief-Stricken) * 1.587(Attk% from my Gear) = 1587
1587 * 1.1(10% from my Class Mastery) = 1745.7
If your statement was true, then each attk% from my gears should multiply again and the equation would be like this:
1000 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.1 * 1.017 * 1.08 * 1.07 * 1.07 * 1.04 * 1.03 * 1.08 * 1.1(class mastery) = 1940.75
As we can see with this experiment, gear attk% works in the same "layer" of multiplication and therefore, should be added between each other, and not multiplied.
So your statement is false, and attk power % actually suffers from diminishing returns as well.
Now let's see how much of each stat (element and attk power %) we should stack to have the same effectiveness of both destruction and element jades.
First using my attk %, which is actually 64.7%, since I normally use Jackard's Demise title. How much Element should I stack to have the same effectiveness of both Jades?
x = Element before Jade use
(x + 0.086) * 1.647 = (Situation where I use a legend element jade)
1.692x = (Situation where I use a legend Destruction jade)
So the equation to determine the point of equivalence will be like this:
(x + 0.086) * 1.647 = 1.692x
Source: http://www.wolframal...*1.647 = 1.692x
This result means that, if i have 214.76% element and 64.7% attk power, then element jade and destruction jade will have the same effect. Let's calculate with these stats just to be sure:
(Element jade) 1000 * 1.647 * 3.2336 = 5325,8
(Destruction Jade) 1000 * 1.692 * 3.1476 = 5325,8
Destruction jade will be better only if I stack more than 214.76% element, which is just insane.
Now let's check your point of equivalence using your current 118% fire:
x = Attk % before Jade use
(x + 0.045) * 2.18 = (Situation where you use Destruction Jade)
2.266x = (Situation where you use legend fire Jade)
So your equation will be like this:
(x + 0.045) * 2,18 = 2.266x
Source: http://www.wolframal...)*2.18 = 2.266x
This result means that Destruction jade will be more effective only if you have less than 14.07% attk power from your gears. Which could easily be achieved even if you are not rich. With 50g, you can buy a destruction heraldry. And, with a little bit of luck, you can get teary-eyed or Teardrop titles.
Calculating with this stats just to be sure (14.07% attk and 118% fire)
(Destruction Jade) 1000 * 1.1857 * 2.18 = 2584,8
(Fire Jade) 1000 * 1.1407 * 2.266 = 2584,8
Edited by Naos, 25 May 2017 - 08:47 AM.
Posted 25 May 2017 - 09:08 AM
Yes, diminishing affects as well.
If you have all the jades in hand, you may do the calculations as mentioned above.
At 130% ele, dest jades may be stronger. However, if you have dual genesis rings, the strength of dest jades reduces slightly due to diminishing patk % bonus from dual gen rings.
Assuming 130% ele is with 4 ele jades, so 0 ele jade is 95.6% (assuming you use all L at 8.6% each)
Assuming you have 63.1% patk % from dual gen ring (10%), full cash costume (24%), rudn title (6.5%), sadnyth (11%), spirit (1.6%), dest plate (10%).
The rough calculation can be shown below (which may not be entirely accurate, just an estimation):
If you refer to the table, you can see that ele is still stronger. this is most likely due to double % on jades vs dest %. if total % patk was 0, maybe dest will be comparable to ele. however, you get a lot of atk % from costumes, so dest also suffers a degree of diminishing returns.
Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:00 PM
Well, I stand corrected then.
My example was assuming that there was 0% base ATK% and with x amt ATK in place. I suppose oversimplification has its downfalls.
Posted 25 May 2017 - 05:23 PM
Posted 26 May 2017 - 07:19 AM