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Guide - Triple Orbs Exi Double Cast


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#1 GreyRobin

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 10:35 AM

Hello Everyone. First off, the video portion of this guide:

https://www.youtube....h?v=JveQf7M0hGc



Now, the explanations associated with the commentary in the video.

1) Visual bug

This is pretty much the consensus - double casting is only a 'visual bug' and does not deal any damage, and neither do the spheres that the visual bug creates. Obviously, this visual bug is caused by an improper execution of the double cast. Notice that the first three orbs only appear after gravity sphere has dealt it's full hits - this is why the bug happens. You MUST cast TOExi after the very first hit of GSphere, and the orbs MUST be on the field before the final 3 hits of gravity sphere end. There are 4 hits for gravity sphere - 1 when hitting the object, and 3 when exploding on the ground.

Cast first TOExi when hitting object, and second TOExi before the ground explosions end. <--I will most likely repeat this so that it sticks.

2) Common Mistake

This mistake is caused by pressing the hotkey for TOExi too late. There is no opportunity for TOExi to be refreshed a second time.

3) True Double Cast

Ahhh, the fabled double cast of TOExi properly executed. You can tell that is properly executed because it deals 52 hits total - 4 from GSphere, 24 from first cast, 24 from second. You can also notice that both cast are in fact dealing damage, and that all 6 spheres for force gravity are also dealing damage.

You MUST cast first TOExi when hitting object, and second TOExi before the ground explosions end. The ideal way to execute is having TOExi refreshed when GSphere hits the object, having all orbs out from first cast before the explosions end, and then TOExi will be refreshed from the explosions allowing you to cast again.


Now, the second part of the video shows you how to practice. You can practice by blinking backwards so that it gives you a bit more time for the projectile of gravity sphere to hit. Once you get the hang of it, you can blink forwards like I demonstrated in the first part of the video. Please note I am constantly refreshing Force Gravity from the blue circle in the BTG.

1) Common Mistake  

Again, if you click the hotkey for TOExi too slow, it will not have an opportunity to refresh.

2) True Double Cast  

Notice that even though I hit the closest part of the hit box, the first cast of TOExi was on the field BEFORE the final hits of gravity sphere (the explosions).  

3) Mistake

This is hard to notice without explanation. I had cast the first TOExi in order to double cast, however I did not click for the first cast fast enough to cast the second TOExi. Be sure to spam the hotkey in case of lag. Lag can make this happen if you only press the hotkey a couple of time.

4) SECOND Version of True Double Cast

This is also hard to notice without explanation. If TOExi IS OFF CD, it is possible to cast TOExi BEFORE gravity sphere hits at all, and then have TOExi refreshed once gravity sphere hits. Take note that only 50 hits were made. This is because the orb CLOSEST to me was too far from the boss. The first two hits of each orb have the smallest AoE. This isn't really important, but I added in a brief explanation to make everyone aware. You can still be relatively far from the object and get most hits in.


With a +1 plate to reach r20 TO, and a +20% damage plate for TO, as well as a -20% CD plate for gravity sphere, you can deal roughly 20,500% every 4.5 seconds by double casting. This is obviously the highest dps skill for sorcs (all things being equal). ***EDIT*** I say around 20,500% because object may move or one orb might be too far when casting. I also added the damage of GSphere into this 20,500%. I don't see any real reason to be nitpicky about this number, since it's not the main premise of this guide.

I hope that this guide has been helpful, and has laid some arguments to rest.


****EDIT 2**** TOExi is the only Sorc exi that can be double cast with both casts having damage consistently. I also do not have time or patience to teach in game. Please no more mails or pms.

****EDIT 3**** Too tired right now. I forgot that Fireball Exi can be double cast under SPECIAL conditions, along with Spectrum Exi.

Edited by GreyRobin, 23 April 2017 - 03:13 PM.


#2 Xenocho

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:34 AM

Is this effective in actual raids? Could you show us if abusing TO EXi's double cast can cause Majesty to surpass Smasher and Saleana?

Also, just to check, you need Grav Sphere to CD TO EXI. Assuming you had already cast TO EXI, you need to wait for it to CD completely (16s) before you can do a double again right?

In theory, it's very easy to sugar coat everything.

Edited by Xenocho, 23 April 2017 - 11:40 AM.


#3 GreyRobin

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 01:30 PM

No, you don't have to wait for CD of TO. If that were the case, there would be no point to this guide b/c you could cast at least 3 TOExi every 4.5s before you could double cast.

Granted, with bosses constantly moving, you're not going to see results immediately as a maj player, and realistically, it's not a 100% guarantee that you will be able to DCast consecutively for an extended period. This is why I included the 'practise' portion.

I've always said Majesty was better for dps potential because of this. I even CC'd my Elestra to Maj a couple months after awakening. I still have Smasher and Sally. I've explained how to do it many times (without video) and I've only met one other person who can do it consistently, but they only pvp.

As for raids, most parties are dealing so much damage that boss's hp interval skill changes happen frequently and they're stationary for quite some time. It only takes 3-4s for all hits to land from the DCast. As you can see in the video, it has a pretty large AoE. There's no way a boss is moving that much every 3-4s that you can't get at least 1 of the casts to hit. IIRC, one of the big critiques for Maj is, "Bosses move out of TOExi and only 20-50% of hits land". Well if you move your camera during double cast, you can place the second cast in such a way as to compensate, and still deal more damage then if you only cast one TOExi.

#4 Reizelle

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:02 PM

This is a nice guide (:]). Never knew you could double cast TOexi but it seems to really have a small window in raids. Additionally, this could be quite the perk up for Maj's damage if her awakening skills were fixed (T.T) .

#5 Xenocho

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:43 PM

I am interested in the practicality of this. It's obviously not easy to do but the damage potential it claims is overwhelming. But it's also disappointing that the only other player who can do this only does pvp.

How much increment of maj Dps will it be if done perfectly in raid context? How much of total skill % will triple orbs instant contribute?

It would be better if you show an actual run than battle ground too. You can practice fully perfectly at battle ground but the situations created in actual runs are whet matters.

Edited by Xenocho, 23 April 2017 - 05:46 PM.


#6 GreyRobin

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 12:35 AM

The practice that I suggest in BTG isn't because the boss is stationary. I suggest in BTG just to get the timing down, and the aiming of gsphere. Once you have the hang of it, you can blink forwards and be directly on the boss - just simply aim GSphere to go through to the further part of the objects hitbox. Think of it sorta like poison missile - with proper timing and aiming you can have all 3 pools on top of one another. The blue circles that refresh skills are also nice for practicing the double cast while going into your combos and skill rotation, along with refreshing Force Gravity to get the timing for the new 3 orbs that are generated.

As for practicality, please don't expect that creating a Maj and getting double cast most of the time is going to greatly increase your damage. Gameplay of Maj is completely different than the other Sorcs. I tried to explain double cast to Seraphimu and I don't know if he got it down or not, but when he tested between Maj and Smasher, he saw the 'dps potential'. He didn't like her play style enough to pursue it though.

I always say and have said 'potential' in the past because there is a lot of characteristics about Maj's skills that need certain timing or aiming. You definitely need to be on your toes at all times with Maj.

If I feel like it, I might make a video of a run. I will most likely just take screenshots of my dmg totals. As you can see in the video, it's very laggy for me to record and play. Unless everyone is okay with 120p XD.

For her buggy awakenings, it is possible to have the 3 extra sphere from the 'visual bug' to deal damage, but it doesn't happen 100% of the time. With double cast though, the extra 3 sphere deal damage 100% of the time. When preparing for Gravity Rush, I personally like to have the center of the triangle on the outer part of the hitbox to either the left or the right. In my experience it's alot easier to burst all sphere this way, provided the boss doesn't cover the third orb completely.

I got into a bit of a small argument a long time ago with someone and took screenshots in abn/manti:

1) higher than 28hit combo on stationary ABN boss:    http://imgur.com/cAq6MhM

2) higher than 28hit combo while seperating exi, boss moved: http://imgur.com/Woy6Ri8

3) higher than 28hit combo on super mobile boss (part 1of2): http://imgur.com/zHrD9M2

4) near 52hit combo on super mobile boss (part 2of2): http://imgur.com/Ji2RGeE

^^^^I was being very sarcastic in the screenshots because the only real critique (which I've heard over and over) is that "bosses move out of exi". I chose those two bosses back then for 2 reasons: their mobility and charge skills, and I was too lazy to get the rest of my gear up from an alt for a 'real' battle lol.

Back at the time of the screenshots, I didn't know whether or not I was able to double cast because of latency issues (I'm in Canada). Later on I met the other Maj who can double cast as well. We were both surprised in ladder when we double casted on each other. There have been complaints since Maj awakening about double cast in pvp, hence why it's been nerfed twice. Before a Maj was perfectly able to juggle just from double casting and have the battle over before the 20 seconds mark. I can only assume the complaints were from individuals who experienced the true double casting for TOExi.

#7 GreyRobin

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 12:40 AM

There are other Majesty players. Maybe one of them wouldn't mind helping with video content? Just know that I don't know if I'll be invested enough to care about furthering this 'guide' (I use that term loosely). Majesty has always had huge criticism, aside from the bandwagon brigade when GSwitch was boosted back in 70.

#8 GreyRobin

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 03:38 AM

There is this video of a Majesty:

https://www.youtube....h?v=RigMk7EfxAg

Around the 9:21 mark, she double casts TOExi successfully. Their skill level was, imho, below average at the time of the video. So far this is the oldest video I can find that shows a double cast.

***EDIT*** They also cast the visual bug a few times. The majority of the time they only had single cast of TOExi.

Edited by GreyRobin, 25 April 2017 - 04:05 AM.


#9 tkage

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 02:44 PM

Edt: I solved my own problems haha
Edited my post to share some extra information for fellow majesty who wants to try this out.

Thanks to a friend who pointed out how this is similar to Raven's double rake!

A few extra things I would like to add on,
  • Torbs icon lights up again but I can't cast it!
For people who tried this and experienced the situation where the Triple Orbs icon lights up again but you can't seem to cast anything, Do move your character a little before hitting the 2nd cast. The moving helps break the animation lock.
  • This is not easy
‚ÄčTo anyone else who wants to try this, it is really not easy. Takes a lot of practice to get the timing right.

Thank you so much TS for sharing this!

Oh and a video of successful double cast, credit's to my friend who was trying out on my character :D
https://youtu.be/Bz8jBr1Ous0

Edited by tkage, 06 May 2017 - 10:10 AM.


#10 GreyRobin

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 11:41 PM

View Posttkage, on 05 May 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Edt: I solved my own problems haha
Edited my post to share some extra information for fellow majesty who wants to try this out.

Thanks to a friend who pointed out how this is similar to Raven's double rake!

A few extra things I would like to add on,
  • Torbs icon lights up again but I can't cast it!
For people who tried this and experienced the situation where the Triple Orbs icon lights up again but you can't seem to cast anything, Do move your character a little before hitting the 2nd cast. The moving helps break the animation lock.
  • This is not easy
‚ÄčTo anyone else who wants to try this, it is really not easy. Takes a lot of practice to get the timing right.

Thank you so much TS for sharing this!

Oh and a video of successful double cast, credit's to my friend who was trying out on my character :D
https://youtu.be/Bz8jBr1Ous0

Thanks for your insight!

I was stopping by today just to mention I've been busy past few weeks, and hopefully I can get some numbers posted for single-cast VS double cast very soon.

Some speculation I would like confirmed however is just how much damage does TOExi deal with end-game gear. I have people saying it's only 30m per tick, although 30m per tick has been possible with IDNL, and should be much higher considering there's RuDNL and the overall boost to TO damage in recent patches. If my calculations are correct, a Maj with optimal gear (RuDNL, RefGen, 2nd fd/int) should be getting above 80m per tick in raids.

The reason for asking about damage is because, as we all know, TOExi is affected by attack speed and can deal all hits/explode faster with will + rh + lencea. I most likely WILL NOT be utilizing attack speed buffs for my testing, so we can 'assume' that numbers related to TOExi should be much higher in raids, especially with percentages.

Also, I'm not really 'testing' double cast, I'm 'testing' single cast. I've been double casting since 90 cap. In fact, I find single casting foreign to me - lol. I'm not used to single casting so I'll have to fiddle with my rotations a bit.

#11 whitevoid

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 12:42 AM

if you want to dual cast 3orbs don't get excited. majesty is a turtle char , everything is in slow motion.

#12 GreyRobin

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 02:22 AM

View Postwhitevoid, on 08 May 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

if you want to dual cast 3orbs don't get excited. majesty is a turtle char , everything is in slow motion.

It's literally less than 2 seconds for double cast, even less with speed buffs. Regardless though, what does being a turtle have to do with anything? Unless you just came to be devil's advocate?

#13 tkage

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 04:59 AM

View PostGreyRobin, on 07 May 2017 - 11:41 PM, said:

Thanks for your insight!

I was stopping by today just to mention I've been busy past few weeks, and hopefully I can get some numbers posted for single-cast VS double cast very soon.

Some speculation I would like confirmed however is just how much damage does TOExi deal with end-game gear. I have people saying it's only 30m per tick, although 30m per tick has been possible with IDNL, and should be much higher considering there's RuDNL and the overall boost to TO damage in recent patches. If my calculations are correct, a Maj with optimal gear (RuDNL, RefGen, 2nd fd/int) should be getting above 80m per tick in raids.

The reason for asking about damage is because, as we all know, TOExi is affected by attack speed and can deal all hits/explode faster with will + rh + lencea. I most likely WILL NOT be utilizing attack speed buffs for my testing, so we can 'assume' that numbers related to TOExi should be much higher in raids, especially with percentages.

Also, I'm not really 'testing' double cast, I'm 'testing' single cast. I've been double casting since 90 cap. In fact, I find single casting foreign to me - lol. I'm not used to single casting so I'll have to fiddle with my rotations a bit.

Post edited again because I found more things welp:
No problem, definitely glad to discuss about Majesty :3
I still wish there is a way for me to know how to properly cast the double cast.

also TS, I would like to ask, have you ever successfully casted double cast twice in a row in the battleground? I have been trying to do this double cast thing, and I found out that my t-orbs CD does not reset despite I am "fast enough". Any faster with my t-orbs casting and I would have cancelled my gravity spark. (Or am I still doing it wrong? Do let me know!)

I have recorded it down, at about 16 mins of the video's timing was where a friend suggested to aim t-orbs elsewhere to see gravity spark's hit. To me, it looked like I did it right (t-orbs casted before gravity spark's full 4 hits) yet reset does not happen.

https://youtu.be/usuRmAU58qc

We are thinking could it be that the 2nd casted t-orbs have an internal cd on it's own that the blue buff from BTG does not reset it? Just to add on, BT (Beyond Time) does not get recovered by the blue buff either.

Or there could be other possibilities such as ping issues?

Thank you in advance and I hope I wasn't asking too much ^^''

Edited by tkage, 08 May 2017 - 11:01 AM.


#14 whitevoid

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 03:01 PM

3orbs insta cant be cast twice if 3orbs normal is on cd. it doesnt have internal cd.

#15 GreyRobin

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:28 AM

View Posttkage, on 08 May 2017 - 04:59 AM, said:

Post edited again because I found more things welp:
No problem, definitely glad to discuss about Majesty :3
I still wish there is a way for me to know how to properly cast the double cast.

also TS, I would like to ask, have you ever successfully casted double cast twice in a row in the battleground? I have been trying to do this double cast thing, and I found out that my t-orbs CD does not reset despite I am "fast enough". Any faster with my t-orbs casting and I would have cancelled my gravity spark. (Or am I still doing it wrong? Do let me know!)
In the second part of the video, I double cast Exi right after showing a common mistake, and TOexi is cast AFTER spark hits. In your second video, you're not really double casting the way I am. You're casting once off CD, then resetting with GSpark. This is what I call the "second version".

I totally thought I mentioned BTG's awkward hitbox. This is why I suggest blinking backwards for beginners. You've probably noticed that skills aimed a few feet in front of of the golem still hit. There's pics of me double-casting in ABN/Manti from a longgggg time ago.

I have recorded it down, at about 16 mins of the video's timing was where a friend suggested to aim t-orbs elsewhere to see gravity spark's hit. To me, it looked like I did it right (t-orbs casted before gravity spark's full 4 hits) yet reset does not happen.

Again, look back to what I aid about GSpark.  There are 4 hits for gravity sphere - 1 when hitting the object, and 3 when exploding on the ground. Give your spark time to hit the hitbox, then move through the hitbox to the furthest part of the hitbox (from your character) where GSpark will explode on the ground. The only reason I was getting blue buff was to reset Force Gravity CD. I was just indecisive of where and when to use FG. The purpose of FG was to show the 6 spheres from double cast do in fact deal damage.

https://youtu.be/usuRmAU58qc

We are thinking could it be that the 2nd casted t-orbs have an internal cd on it's own that the blue buff from BTG does not reset it? Just to add on, BT (Beyond Time) does not get recovered by the blue buff either.
If that were the case, it would be impossible  to use TOEX then TOExi x2, which it's not.

Or there could be other possibilities such as ping issues?
Your timing isn't quite down yet. Try executing a full blink backwards before you gspark. Once you do it a few times you should have an idea of where and when gspark hits. Then try adding Exi into the mix.

Thank you in advance and I hope I wasn't asking too much ^^''

Edited by GreyRobin, 17 May 2017 - 06:39 AM.


#16 GreyRobin

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:29 AM

View Postwhitevoid, on 09 May 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

3orbs insta cant be cast twice if 3orbs normal is on cd. it doesnt have internal cd.

It can, and it happens in the second part of the video. Again, are you really commenting to add anything of value?

#17 GreyRobin

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:41 AM

So I've ran DDL, TKN, GN, and SDN; all with a few runs single exi and a couple runs double exi. Single-casting exi was so horrendous that I'm not confident it's accurate. My overall damage with single was only about 40% of double. I highly doubt I was utilizing my rotations properly for single cast.

I've also received many pms and mail (even though I explicitly said not to). It seems everyone is having a hard time. I really don't think I'll be going further with this if it's that hard for everyone to do. Maybe I'll change my mind......

#18 tkage

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 02:11 PM

Well thank you for your reply and clarification on how i am doing the 2nd version of double cast.
I have tried blinking backwards, forward, even sideways to keep trying it out.

Also, I do know of BTG's awkward hit box, and I know clearly that gravity spark hits 4 times. So I don't see my aiming of g-spark as a problem itself. In fact, I landed all 4 hits most of the time. I do understand your reason for getting the blue buff. For my case, i took it because I want to keep trying the double casting (if that isn't obvious enough.)

I am probably a noob pilot thus I couldn't do this and I do not want to blame it on other factors. However it would help greatly if someone with better ping and fps to show this. I do not want to have the feeling that ping/fps actually affects this too.