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#1 xCrowdControl

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 04:24 PM

LF good at supporting now? or LF still suck?

#2 Dirkheim

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:03 PM

You can read these up to get your answer:
http://forum.cherryc...eal-still-suck/
http://forum.cherryc...fury-awakening/

TL;DR, LF only provides burst healing, unlike Phys and Saint with both regenerative (relic/slime) and burst heal.

#3 xCrowdControl

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 06:42 PM

View PostDirkheim, on 29 April 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

You can read these up to get your answer:
http://forum.cherryc...eal-still-suck/
http://forum.cherryc...fury-awakening/

TL;DR, LF only provides burst healing, unlike Phys and Saint with both regenerative (relic/slime) and burst heal.

Thank you very much sir

#4 Nihilism

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 06:45 PM

LF became better with the awakening imo. Although compared to other supports such as saints/physician Lf might fall off(Mainly in raids) but if we're talking about a normal nest then I think LF can do great.

#5 Riuga

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 08:18 PM

There's something about LF that makes me prefer it over Saint in RuDN, and it isn't just the faster MP healing. They are just less clunky and more flexible in general. I don't have to deal with those annoying relic forests, and since their healing is divided into three skills, it solves a lot of those "heal still on CD" moments that you often get with Saints. Each skill heals less than a Great Heal, and thus they have to cast more than one skill to be on par with GH, however I find it more useful to have lesser but more frequent heals instead of one massive heal that is sometimes overkill.

Edited by Riuga, 01 May 2017 - 08:19 PM.


#6 HolyBring

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 08:45 PM

View PostRiuga, on 01 May 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

There's something about LF that makes me prefer it over Saint in RuDN, and it isn't just the faster MP healing. They are just less clunky and more flexible in general. I don't have to deal with those annoying relic forests, and since their healing is divided into three skills, it solves a lot of those "heal still on CD" moments that you often get with Saints. Each skill heals less than a Great Heal, and thus they have to cast more than one skill to be on par with GH, however I find it more useful to have lesser but more frequent heals instead of one massive heal that is sometimes overkill.

Finally someone that understands! Too bad general public still prefer saints. I am lucky I have a guild that is more willing to try things differently, but for general LFs out there... people are just too stuck in their minds that LFs suck at healing, even when they have greater heal power than physicians, and can come on par with saints.

I wished I can find that video again from duowan that has a team of 7 dps n 1 LF clearning Rudn HC and shove it to those people who still thinks LFs can't support as good as saint/phys after awakening.

Only quarrel I have with LFs is that our cure can't cure self movement debuffs. Pure stupidity on devs part.

#7 Riuga

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 11:19 PM

View PostHolyBring, on 01 May 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Finally someone that understands! Too bad general public still prefer saints. I am lucky I have a guild that is more willing to try things differently, but for general LFs out there... people are just too stuck in their minds that LFs suck at healing, even when they have greater heal power than physicians, and can come on par with saints.

I wished I can find that video again from duowan that has a team of 7 dps n 1 LF clearning Rudn HC and shove it to those people who still thinks LFs can't support as good as saint/phys after awakening.

Only quarrel I have with LFs is that our cure can't cure self movement debuffs. Pure stupidity on devs part.

Actually taking an LF is a smart thing to do when you don't have a lot of FD or DPS in general. The Raid buff makes a world of difference, and contributed the most sizable increase to our DPS when we were gearing up / increasing our DPS for RuDN HC. Even pre-awakening, we thought the heals were good enough to clear HC. Factoring in the Raid buff which we critically needed in order to clear, the choice between Saint and LF was a no-brainer back then. Pairing a Guardian with an LF is very efficient, for you do not lose out on AoR, but you gain Raid. Now there may be some party compositions out there that do not have a Cleric, thus the decision may be a bit harder to make.

The cDN team that cleared with just an LF was very smart in planning their lineup. The DNC gear was mediocre at best, thus taking an LF made the most sense for their situation. By taking an LF, they gain Raid while still fulfilling the Support / Healer role in one slot. My team has a philosophy of not relying on the healer and to perfect our dodging, thus pre-Awakening LFs were sufficient enough for our skill level, and I would assume the same applies to the cDN team.

I believe you mean this video. The link happened to be in the References section of our private RuDN guide, which we wrote around two weeks prior to RuDN getting released. I clearly remember this video for it was the first complete run video to be released. They took a Physician, however. Then again, Physicians are staples in almost every raid lineup these days. Most teams and parties will take a Physician regardless of whether they pick a Saint or LF to go along with it, so I don't think that it is a huge deal. My team's lineup also has a Physician in it.

Edited by Riuga, 01 May 2017 - 11:34 PM.


#8 Dirkheim

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 12:58 AM

So does LF actually have the potential to replace saint for the healer spot, and not compete with physician for the healer/dps slot now?
Chakra heal feels a bit clunky to use at times (well on my usage, prolly have to get better with it).

What I find good with lf now is that he has 'backup' heals of some sorts. If for some reason the lf gets chakra miracle or the bunny scancelled, he still has another to cast, assuming it does not get cancelled also. (tense) But if the saint screws gh with boss attack or block, the heal will be only maintained by relics.
I do recognize that it's not a complete "benefit" as he does have to cast two skils to heal 30%.

Edited by Dirkheim, 02 May 2017 - 01:10 AM.


#9 Riuga

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:36 AM

I would say so, yes. Our Physician tends to handle the "big" heals, thus our LF is able to handle the medium-minor heals even with skills that heal less than GH. I have never considered Heal Relic to be of use considering mobile bosses, relic wipes, and how raids emphasize burst healing. They do have to cast two skills instead of one to equal a GH, however I find that these weaker heals often times heal enough to prevent the person from dying within the next 2 seconds or so that it takes for the LF to cast some other healing skill.

I think many people are missing the point, however. LFs bring sizable and fast MP heals (critical in case people take hits in the last stage of RuDN) and offers Raid - a buff which is almost a must-have for any non-full-FD team attempting to clear RuDN HC. Their curing, as long as it is supplemented with a Physician and good dodging, is enough for the purposes of RuDN. This isn't like RDN where people tend to take fire damage every 2 seconds and therefore need something that cures every 2 seconds or so like Cure Relic.

Edited by Riuga, 02 May 2017 - 01:41 AM.


#10 FirePhoenix

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:17 AM

LF provide better heal overall than saint. However, main healer in serious raid pt is still belong to saint with superior cure relic. It make the run more stable.

#11 HolyBring

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 12:39 PM

View PostRiuga, on 01 May 2017 - 11:19 PM, said:


*shortened*

I believe you mean this video.

I do believe I saw a lf in that cdn run instead of a phy.

View PostFirePhoenix, on 02 May 2017 - 03:17 AM, said:

LF provide better heal overall than saint. However, main healer in serious raid pt is still belong to saint with superior cure relic. It make the run more stable.

It also depends on ur team thou, when playing as a semi meele dps i got a relic blocking my escape every once in a while. Our raid leader always had to remind the saint to put the relics away from the team. There was one time when a cure relic killed the entire team lol. During the "dark energy raises" on rudn s3, the saint tried to cure the dark burns away from one of our team members, ended blocking the front of the team and the boss shot a blast right in the middle, so the relic effectively blocked everyone's way forward. Not to say it is common but it happens.

Saints are very good at their jobs no question there, just the relic forest can get annoying sometimes. Adepts face the same problem with those stone pillars.

Edited by HolyBring, 02 May 2017 - 12:41 PM.


#12 Xenocho

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:04 PM

View PostHolyBring, on 02 May 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:



I do believe I saw a lf in that cdn run instead of a phy.



It also depends on ur team thou, when playing as a semi meele dps i got a relic blocking my escape every once in a while. Our raid leader always had to remind the saint to put the relics away from the team. There was one time when a cure relic killed the entire team lol. During the "dark energy raises" on rudn s3, the saint tried to cure the dark burns away from one of our team members, ended blocking the front of the team and the boss shot a blast right in the middle, so the relic effectively blocked everyone's way forward. Not to say it is common but it happens.

Saints are very good at their jobs no question there, just the relic forest can get annoying sometimes. Adepts face the same problem with those stone pillars.
It sounds more like the Saint in your team is making wrong decisions. I run with a saint in all parties and have never seen him do such things which jeopardize the party. From this individual case, it's not fair to say that saints are bad. Cure relic is the most efficient cure. For the bind mech in dragon p2, we find that LF cure can fail sometimes despite being in AoE. So far cure relic has not failed in that aspect.

#13 Dirkheim

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:09 PM

View PostHolyBring, on 01 May 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Only quarrel I have with LFs is that our cure can't cure self movement debuffs. Pure stupidity on devs part.

You can probably add chakra ring in there. About chakra cure, however, is it me, or is it a bit 'overkill' with 'cures up to 10 debuffs.' I have not seen that much amount of debuffs yet in my experience (I have not gone deep enough in serious raids). Does this happen?

#14 Riuga

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:16 PM

View PostDirkheim, on 02 May 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

You can probably add chakra ring in there. About chakra cure, however, is it me, or is it a bit 'overkill' with 'cures up to 10 debuffs.' I have not seen that much amount of debuffs yet in my experience (I have not gone deep enough in serious raids). Does this happen?

I believe the highest number of debuffs I've ever seen stacked in a raid is 3. In most cases it should never exceed 2.

#15 HolyBring

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:52 PM

View PostXenocho, on 02 May 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

It sounds more like the Saint in your team is making wrong decisions. I run with a saint in all parties and have never seen him do such things which jeopardize the party. From this individual case, it's not fair to say that saints are bad. Cure relic is the most efficient cure. For the bind mech in dragon p2, we find that LF cure can fail sometimes despite being in AoE. So far cure relic has not failed in that aspect.

It is just a 1 time thing the saint did lol, not a regular thing, might be some combination with lag and panic to save the teammate. I am just saying it happens, not often, maybe even unique cases, but it happens.

No one is saying saints are bad anyways.We are just saying LFs have the potential to be as great as saints.

View PostDirkheim, on 02 May 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

You can probably add chakra ring in there. About chakra cure, however, is it me, or is it a bit 'overkill' with 'cures up to 10 debuffs.' I have not seen that much amount of debuffs yet in my experience (I have not gone deep enough in serious raids). Does this happen?

Yea, the cure 10 debuffs is an overkill. I have never seen more than 2-3 debuffs either. 5 debuff removal is good enough imo.

Edited by HolyBring, 02 May 2017 - 02:54 PM.


#16 Dirkheim

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:42 PM

View PostRiuga, on 02 May 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

I believe the highest number of debuffs I've ever seen stacked in a raid is 3. In most cases it should never exceed 2.

View PostHolyBring, on 02 May 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

It is just a 1 time thing the saint did lol, not a regular thing, might be some combination with lag and panic to save the teammate. I am just saying it happens, not often, maybe even unique cases, but it happens. No one is saying saints are bad anyways.We are just saying LFs have the potential to be as great as saints. Yea, the cure 10 debuffs is an overkill. I have never seen more than 2-3 debuffs either. 5 debuff removal is good enough imo.

Thought so. I do hope it gets reworked alongside chakra ring. Maybe less cd with 5 curable debuffs? It has less than 30m range anyway, I guess.
Now I'll just wait until LF's reputation becomes better with the pubs now. (crazy)

#17 HolyBring

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 11:02 PM

AND!!! I found the vid!!!

http://www.bilibili..../av10283806/?zw

The 7 dps 1 LF rudn hc pt.

Edited by HolyBring, 03 May 2017 - 11:15 PM.


#18 iKissa

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 10:41 AM

I think these are mentioned already but i'll just say my words.
The downside of LF as a support is the cure, we all know how superior Cure Relic is while Chakra Cure sometimes failed to cure.
The heal is actually better in term of usage compared to Saint. Saint's Great Heal (at least mine) is overkill, needs 3.5 ~ 4m HP teammates (which is rare, most of them have 3m or less) while LF's heals are split into 3 skills with lesser CD. Chakra Miracle CD is still bugged when using CD plate tho.
And lastly, the wall of relics blocks your teammates which is kinda crucial on raids.

Edited by iKissa, 04 May 2017 - 10:43 AM.


#19 Xenocho

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 11:09 AM

View PostiKissa, on 04 May 2017 - 10:41 AM, said:

I think these are mentioned already but i'll just say my words.
The downside of LF as a support is the cure, we all know how superior Cure Relic is while Chakra Cure sometimes failed to cure.
The heal is actually better in term of usage compared to Saint. Saint's Great Heal (at least mine) is overkill, needs 3.5 ~ 4m HP teammates (which is rare, most of them have 3m or less) while LF's heals are split into 3 skills with lesser CD. Chakra Miracle CD is still bugged when using CD plate tho.
And lastly, the wall of relics blocks your teammates which is kinda crucial on raids.
The text in bold can make or break a RuDN run. If not for that, probably LF cure and heals alone can sustain an experienced party

Edited by Xenocho, 04 May 2017 - 11:19 AM.


#20 TresCommas

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Posted 04 May 2017 - 08:09 PM

imo,

Saint = Burst Healing + Consistent Curing
Physician = Semi-Burst Heal + Attack Buff
Light Fury = Burst & Semi Healing(rangeless) + Damage Reduction

Edited by TresCommas, 04 May 2017 - 08:13 PM.