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Simple Question That Need Simple Answer :d


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#1 Limbo

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 07:27 PM

in battling nest using defensio.

1. when should i use duck. Before rotation?
every rotation need to cast duck?
2. when to use skills in the skill bar? or ill just use
duck + left + left + duck + right + right clicks.
3. when should i use normal attack then skill then normal attack then duck + left + left click etc.

oh man even if i read threads im still confused on how to play this cat.! dammit XD axaxa
can you please make a simple guide for me? easy to learn and understand.
of when to use and how. what specific rotation i should focus. if CD what other rotations.
thats it. so far. thank you :D

Edited by Limbo, 11 May 2017 - 08:15 PM.


#2 Jakielyn

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:18 PM

View PostLimbo, on 11 May 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

in battling nest using defension.

1. when should i use duck. Before rotation?
every rotation need to cast duck?
2. when to use skills in the skill bar? or ill just use
duck + left + left + duck + right + right clicks.
3. when should i use normal attack then skill then normal attack then duck + left + left click etc.

oh man even if i read threads im still confused on how to play this cat.! dammit XD axaxa
can you please make a simple guide for me? easy to learn and understand.
of when to use and how. what specific rotation i should focus. if CD what other rotations.
thats it. so far. thank you :D

1. All the time.
Otherwise you won't be refreshing Overboost buff over and over again.
2. ???
3. After Beat down (ex or not),
After Taunting Blow.

Beginners:
Taunting Blow > R.Click(Detonate TB) > Repair > Taunting Blow > R.Click(Detonate TB)
Taunting Blow > Hold L.Click(Upto last punch) > Repair > Taunting Blow > R.Click(Detonate TB)

Advance:


#3 Limbo

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:20 PM

View PostJakielyn, on 11 May 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

1. All the time.
Otherwise you won't be refreshing Overboost buff over and over again.
2. ???
3. After Beat down (ex or not),
After Taunting Blow.

Beginners:
Taunting Blow > R.Click(Detonate TB) > Repair > Taunting Blow > R.Click(Detonate TB)
Taunting Blow > Hold L.Click(Upto last punch) > Repair > Taunting Blow > R.Click(Detonate TB)

Advance:


can you explain in simple words question number 1 please .

#4 Jakielyn

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:58 PM

What simple, simple? Because it's the core rotation of how to play Defensio/Ruina?


It's so that you can chain Duck > Rock Away(Space bar > R.Click), which is the fastest in gathering bubbles(red bars over the green bar), many times as possible.
Now if you don't do it so often. You'll run out of Overboost buff which you need in playing it effectively.
Without the Overboost, Duck is in a 5 seconds CD. Which is gonna be hard in chaining it to other skills.

Now to gather bubbles the rotation is either:
R.Click > R.Click > Space bar > R.Click (Repeat Space bar > R.Click)
F.Stomp > Space bar > R.Click (Repeat Space bar > R.Click)
Step Up > Space bar > R.Click (Repeat Space bar > R.Click)

Edited by Jakielyn, 11 May 2017 - 08:59 PM.


#5 Limbo

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:02 PM

View PostJakielyn, on 11 May 2017 - 08:58 PM, said:

What simple, simple? Because it's the core rotation of how to play Defensio/Ruina?


It's so that you can chain Duck > Rock Away(Space bar > R.Click), which is the fastest in gathering bubbles(red bars over the green bar), many times as possible.
Now if you don't do it so often. You'll run out of Overboost buff which you need in playing it effectively.
Without the Overboost, Duck is in a 5 seconds CD. Which is gonna be hard in chaining it to other skills.

Now to gather bubbles the rotation is either:
R.Click > R.Click > Space bar > R.Click (Repeat Space bar > R.Click)
F.Stomp > Space bar > R.Click (Repeat Space bar > R.Click)
Step Up > Space bar > R.Click (Repeat Space bar > R.Click)

ok ill level up first my defensio then ill ask again if something confused me again. because i cant practice im still at lvl 24.

#6 Xenocho

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:03 PM

I've mentioned before that machina is an advanced class. You cannot expect it to be learnt with simple instructions. You need to follow specific rotations and adapt if you need to change the sequence. It's like math; you need to understand how it works and how to calculate before you can go through an exam.

#7 Limbo

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:08 PM

View PostXenocho, on 11 May 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

I've mentioned before that machina is an advanced class. You cannot expect it to be learnt with simple instructions. You need to follow specific rotations and adapt if you need to change the sequence. It's like math; you need to understand how it works and how to calculate before you can go through an exam.

ok can you give me specific rotations like what to do in battling nest.
first hit should be normal attack? skill ? or need to duck? something like that.
i need rotations i cant understand just by reading. i need actions XD for me to understand.
rotations for me to understand.
example. 1. buff
2. duck. 3. gather bubbles. 4. skill spam? 5. normal hit 6. duck again 7. skill.
something like that rotations and what to do.

i want to practice while still on low level but i guess i need to reach lvl 93 first then practice.

Edited by Limbo, 11 May 2017 - 09:09 PM.


#8 Jakielyn

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 09:25 PM

Well then. You can't fully practice those things if you aren't Lv.93 yet or until you get to Defensio.

#9 DracoFalco

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:11 PM

At level 24, duck level is only 1 or 2. The CD reduction of gear steps is not significant. In dungeon just do whatever to clear mobs, press skill in bar... anything :V

#10 Xenocho

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:20 PM

All class need to be cap level to properly learn. No longer is it like previous caps where you can learn how to use or play a class from just leveling

#11 Reizelle

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 10:51 PM

1. when should i use duck. Before rotation?
every rotation need to cast duck?

>Whenever you can. Overboost is a Defensio's (and also a Ruina's) core buff. This doesn't have to be at 100% up-time for a Defensio because you aren't a DPS (in a sense) but having it up most of the time will become a habit if you keep on practicing on the nests you're usually running on.

2. when to use skills in the skill bar? or ill just use
duck + left + left + duck + right + right clicks.

>It will depend on which you're comfortable with. Most of the time it's a combination because you can't Taunting Blow/Repair/Air Shove/Beyond the Wall/Man-to-Man/etc. after a Duck using your left/right click.

3. when should i use normal attack then skill then normal attack then duck + left + left click etc.
>Mostly it's just after Beat Down. However, you can do it after Kidney Blow or Leap Over as well IF the situation calls for it or you think you can pull it off.

All in all. Just practice, watch some Defensio gameplays, and read guides (the 90 cap guides are still relevant) for some combos. You'll eventually learn the basic stuff and more so on the field. It's like playing a Tekken character on DN (:D), just read/watch the combos, practice, make your own combos if you can, apply it, and practice again.

#12 Limbo

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 10:50 PM

so guys what stats should i build to defensio? str, agi, vit, physical attack, magical attack, elem, crit, etc etc,

#13 Xenocho

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 01:09 AM

View PostLimbo, on 15 May 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

so guys what stats should i build to defensio? str, agi, vit, physical attack, magical attack, elem, crit, etc etc,

AGI main stat priority, STR is worth 0.25 AGI only, so not worth stacking if you lose other stats.

PATK is the main.

Elem if can and is better than using destruction jades

Crit should come naturally due to Machina being AGI class. However, if not, try to cap crit first.

Don't bother with crit dmg, that's gonna be low for AGI class without high-end gears.

FD is a high-end gear item. More is better of course, if you don't lose too much patk trying to stack FD

#14 Limbo

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:01 PM

View PostXenocho, on 16 May 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

AGI main stat priority, STR is worth 0.25 AGI only, so not worth stacking if you lose other stats.

PATK is the main.

Elem if can and is better than using destruction jades

Crit should come naturally due to Machina being AGI class. However, if not, try to cap crit first.

Don't bother with crit dmg, that's gonna be low for AGI class without high-end gears.

FD is a high-end gear item. More is better of course, if you don't lose too much patk trying to stack FD


ah so you mean agi all jades. and elem for weapons and rings.

#15 PawHammer

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:07 PM

View PostLimbo, on 15 May 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

so guys what stats should i build to defensio? str, agi, vit, physical attack, magical attack, elem, crit, etc etc,

TL;DR: AGI+VIT Jades and conversion + element jades on weapons/accessories, Stack a mixture of AGI and VIT 3rd stat for plates and AGI for talismans, don't bother with FD (get it passively with L grade equipment).

Depends on what playstyle you are going to embrace. You see, Defensio is a very versatile class which can be played in three main ways:

Pure damage build: Post-revamp defensio gained a lot of damage in the form of a large % on her main damage skill, Taunting Blow (that deals 70% of a defensio's damage). A defensio that focuses on dealing damage will be a huge threat to her enemies due to her fantastic burst capabilities, and her natural tank bulk together with her overboost and self-heals make her very durable too. If you want to become a pure damage defensio you will need to stack the following:

> AGI: Your main source of attack power and critical! Agi gets a 50% bonus due to a class mastery you learn late game, so it's more worth than pure attack stat.

> Ph.Attack/Element attack: Your secondary source of attack power. Element attack in particular is very important as defensio, due to her having 60% innate final damage (one of the cheapest classes to gear in terms of damage dealers). Getting a high multiplier will enable you to hit like a truck.

> Final damage: low priority, focus on everything else before you tackle this stat (that happens to be the most expensive, as other classes don't get it easily and pay high ammounts for it). It is another multiplier, but you already start with 60%, so... yeah. Every little helps, take it if you get it but not a priority.

The skill needed to play a pure damage defensio is surprisingly low, as her survivability makes up for most mistakes you can make, and the fact you are dealing damage only means another tank in your party will be taking agro, letting you damage without taking any risk. Learn your rotation and spam it (disclaimer: you can still play tank as a full damage build, but chances are you might get yourself in a situation where you wish you had 1m more HP, so I'd reccommend the second or third builds for that unless you really know what you are doing). P.S: Never cast man to man when using this build. Trust me.

Mixed tank build: This build attempts to maximize your survivability as well as increasing the damage you deal to your foes. It's ideal for when you feel confident with yourself enough to not rely on taking every single hit but you still want to be idiot-proof (aka your healers aren't the best, or you just want to be sure that everything will go just fine even when you are 3 men down). This is the build I'm currently using and I reccommend:

>Epic stat plates: 3rd stat VIT except VIT plate (this one gets 3rd stat AGI for obvious reasons).

>Unique stat plates: extra stat AGI or VIT (or chaos FD, in my case I've got half of them VIT, one full AGI and one FD chaos plate).

>Talismans: extra stat AGI (AGI talis give more value in relation to VIT ones. In my case, I have various VIT ones because I can't afford the AGI yet).

>Jades: AGI+VIT /AND/ Elemental conversion when possible.

This build is designed to take advantage of the latest buffs defensio got, as well as give her a better chance at doing her tank job properly. Still hits like a truck, and gets about a million HP more than the squishier, more damaging build. The higher HP combined with the very decent P.attk means beyond the wall becomes a really strong self buff, allows for casting man to man in moments of distress assuming your party plays decently (works well in combination with saint's miracle relic or protection shell). You will also heal around 120k HP per second assuming you have a cleric in your party too. Your main goal here is to keep the agro on you as you dps, which involves a lot more dodging. You'll need to have a more flexible rotation than the pure damage one and use your airtime and evades wisely if you want to prove useful to your party.

IDNL gear + good accessories and costume: 100m~ dps in raid, 4'5-4'75m HP.

Pure tank build: Archaic way of gearing a defensio would be pure VIT stacking. Although I would no longer reccommend going for a full VIT build, this is the cheapest way in which you can get your defensio ready for action. This build is also good for beginners due to how forgiving it is to get hit, and the way it offers a new player the chance to learn how to tank as this agile and highly mobile class. For it you will need:

>Everything extra stat VIT.

A defensio that stacks VIT will have the thickest (not strongest) beyond the wall self-buff and the highest chance of survival of all the defensio builds. Since defensio can act as a core party member, staying alive is a priority and this build enables you to hit reasonably hard (the natural stats of a defensio with plates and rare talismans are respectable) while having a huge health pool that will increase the heals you receive. You can probably use man to man without worrying too much if you are casting your self heal at the same time too. Downsides are that you may find yourself not hitting as hard as you probably want to sometimes. If you are aiming for better, I'd suggest you take the second build I suggested.

This is my contribution to the thread. I honestly advise you to try the tank ways before you attempt to deal damage so you learn the core mechanics of the defensio which is, with no doubt, my favourite Dragon Nest class.

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