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Elves' Dilemma


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#1 HurriDANCE

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:15 AM

I just wanna talk a little about my religion - pantsu religion.
Kidding aside, this is all about AGI classes in general; ELVES, LOLI, MACHINA, ASSASSIN
With AGI as their main stats, they should be the best one when it comes to dealing criticals. YEY!
But, NO. This is DN, so let's drop that idea aside (- developers).

Nowadays, other classes that are not AGI main can easily reach critical rate cap.
Now, how or when did that happened?

It is when they re-scaled AGI stats to cater the needs of non-AGI class to easily reach critical rate cap.
Spoiler
I would say that it's a good move by developers. As non-agi classes can then drop a few wind jades, 3rd stats plate with critical .. to make room for main stat.

Now, that's not really the main problem here.
The problem came in when they introduced the insane amount of stats from IDNL set, base stats and enhancement stats.
How is this a problem?
Well, non-AGI classes can easily reach crit rate cap due to the AGI-crit re-scaling from above. With that said, (and nowadays,) they can just focus on their main stat which is either STR or INT.
And since STR and INT increases critical damage, they get the most out of IDNL.
Sure. AGI-classes can benefit from it too. But it would be on a 'what you see, what you get' basis.

TL;DR
STR/INT class can easily reach (read:ignore) critical rate cap while getting the best out of critical damage nowadays
AGI classes, on the other hand, nothing much.

Now, here's the fun part: SUGGESTION. YAY!

I would love it if devs can do a little twerk on critical resists on monsters.
How should I put it .. agi gives a certain number of critical, right?
Then, a certain number of critical is transformed into a %age in terms of critical rate.
Now, when that number of critical reaches maximum, say 890 for a level cap, anything past that is deemed useless. Well, how about making the excess number still do its job while the %age in terms of critical rate stayed the same. I am suggesting that number of critical would not have a critical cap when it comes to the comparison between it and number of critical resists from monsters
Example:
at 890 critical, you got 89% critical rate (maxed)
then you got around 1000, as how things are now, the game would only read it as 890
But if we remove that (while the rule for critical rate still applies), 1000 would still be 1000
Now, we have a monster with a 250 critical resist.
Surely, a critical of 1000 vs 250 critical resist would be way better than 890 vs 250

Just my suggestion, I am sure there're other ways to utilize AGI stat well.

EDIT:

HOLY SH T
I thought I have posted this on Feedback and suggestion section (oo)

Edited by HurriDANCE, 16 May 2017 - 07:46 AM.


#2 Lordghe

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:08 AM

still waiting for every class gets the same crit dmg values (:>)

#3 DarklynerZ

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:38 AM

Im glad that i wasn't the only one who's been thinking about the same thing as well. So far, Agi is the most inferior stat as compared to Str and Int, with Int being the most superior in terms of pve.

Int: Gives atk, crit dmg, mdef (perfect)
Str: Gives atk, crit dmg (at least the crit dmg is a good bonus)
Agi: Gives atk, crit (crit cap is very easily reached for agi classes and non-agi classes with re-adjusted stats)

And the recent string of High crit resist bosses in nests is not helping Agi classes either.
Str/Int classes at least can fall back to their high crit dmg (nearly 300%).
Agi classes are probably stuck at around 250% (myself having +12 evo idnL set and other relatively good gears)

So i am supportive of HurriDANCE's idea of making excess crit have some usefulness.

My suggestion is quite similar to HurriDANCE's as well.

Remove crit limit of 89%.
The excess crit above 100% will be beneficial in offsetting the crit resists in bosses.

Example: I have 120% crit rate. Target has 30% crit resist.
Effective crit rate will be (1-0.3) * 120 = 84%.

This way, agi classes with excessive crit rate will be able to offset the crit resist and deal consistant dps to make up for the lack of crit dmg.

Dont worry, Str/Int classes are not left behind as well. I would propose removing the limit of the 300% crit dmg cap (im sure highly geared chars can benefit from this)

TLDR:
Agi classes have low crit dmg with excessive crit rate, so remove the crit rate limit and let the excess crit rate offset the crit resist.
Str/Int classes can easily hit max crit rate due to re-adjusted stats and enjoy high crit dmg. Remove crit dmg limit to adjust.

Edited by DarklynerZ, 16 May 2017 - 09:44 AM.


#4 fourrier

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 10:22 AM

This is part of the BARANS problem.

Forget about how the characters gonna deal damage to mobs. They can't even balance the characters by itself.

Weak? Raise board damage so it can do tens of thousands percent damage per second. Forget about debuff, forget the base stats buff, forget everything. It's a barans. And it's gonna be great.

#5 Xenocho

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 11:15 AM

Make AGI class great again! Total crit - crit cap requirement = bonus crit dmg

#6 HurriDANCE

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 12:55 PM

View PostLordghe, on 16 May 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

still waiting for every class gets the same crit dmg values (:>)
Or they can do this too (:>)

@fourrier,
sadly, what you said is true (sorry)

@darklynerz,
I just really can't get it off my system seeing critical resists pops out, hurting my already low dps even more (sorry)
thanks for the support, fellow elf (five)

@xenocho,
Hail agi class master race (lol)

#7 DarklynerZ

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 02:26 PM

@HurriDANCE
ikr, its depressing when you Punch Smash 3x in a row and all of them get crit resisted. (mad)

#8 iuhgnehz

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:46 PM

Yup everyone sure notice that now playing an agi class is not good in the era where IDNL is the new theano (which is not meant to be, but well it already happened)

Everyone just focus on the bad side.... nobody ever look on the good side...

Due to the lack of interest in agi class, actually it's so much easier to gear stack more agi now :).... 1 agi 3rd stats talisman is 10k gold at westwood now, while people are offering 70-100k for each 3rd stats int talisman, in fact even if you are willing to pay 100k, there is no stock lol..

Demand and supply :D

Edited by iuhgnehz, 17 May 2017 - 01:47 PM.


#9 iuhgnehz

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:48 PM

View PostXenocho, on 16 May 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Make AGI class great again! Total crit - crit cap requirement = bonus crit dmg

actually... this will make saint and inquis great also hahaha.... super high cri scaling..

#10 Xenocho

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 01:54 PM

View Postiuhgnehz, on 17 May 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

actually... this will make saint and inquis great also hahaha.... super high cri scaling..

Nerf. Make them stack AGI again!! (S> Rune AGI INT Shield)

#11 OpinionGuy

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:02 PM

A link brought me here so, this seem interesting.
So far we have,
1) HurriDANCE : Crit resist only calculated based on crit value while retain crit rate limit of 89%.
2) Lordghe : Every class gets the same crit dmg values.
3) DarklynerZ : Remove crit limit of 89% + remove crit dmg limit for adjustment
4) Xenocho : Total crit - crit cap requirement = bonus crit dmg  (Nerf high crit scaling of Saint & Inqui in the progress)

My suggestion?
5) Allow only AGI classes exceed crit rate limit of 89%. (:>)

Edited by OpinionGuy, 18 May 2017 - 09:08 PM.


#12 HurriDANCE

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 05:30 AM

View Postiuhgnehz, on 17 May 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

Yup everyone sure notice that now playing an agi class is not good in the era where IDNL is the new theano (which is not meant to be, but well it already happened)

Everyone just focus on the bad side.... nobody ever look on the good side...

Due to the lack of interest in agi class, actually it's so much easier to gear stack more agi now :).... 1 agi 3rd stats talisman is 10k gold at westwood now, while people are offering 70-100k for each 3rd stats int talisman, in fact even if you are willing to pay 100k, there is no stock lol..

Demand and supply :D

(oo) (oo) (oo)
I should scout for some of them then

..

Hopefully someone pass this on to devs, lol

#13 secoscream12

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 07:26 PM

Just here coz  I saw the word ``Elve`s``... I was expecting to see cute elf pics in this thread.. sad

#14 HurriDANCE

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 08:51 AM

^ if there would be any elves pic, you should also expect them to be depressed.
(:D) (:D) (:D)

#15 HurriDANCE

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:38 AM

View PostMike1Toreno, on 23 May 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

STR gives Crit bonus?
Int gives MDEF perfect
AGI gives DPS bonus?
Is the AGI part suggestion or not .-.)?
If not, AGI doesn't add any DPS bonus other than crit (,and attack if you're an AGI class).

I could think of AGI class giving DPS bonus as; Sin's buff and Sniper's critical break.
And NO, you are mistaken if AGI stat is the one making those skills a DPS bonus.

#16 HurriDANCE

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 07:43 PM

And. WOW.
This table made things even worse seeing that agi classes even get 1.75 crit damage per point str/int compared to the rest that has 3 crit damage per point str/int (crazy)
DAFUQ , DEVS
(mad) (mad) (mad)

#17 YagamiRaito

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Posted 26 May 2017 - 10:20 AM

View PostHurriDANCE, on 16 May 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

I
Posted Image

bro how about new crit rate for sh,da,bm,ah?

#18 secoscream12

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 06:54 PM

cute elf pix plxxxx

#19 Nvin

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 02:37 AM

View Postsecoscream12, on 28 May 2017 - 06:54 PM, said:

cute elf pix plxxxx

I am not sure if you will classify mine as cute but...

Spoiler

(:>) (;]) (:D)

#20 secoscream12

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 06:00 PM

View PostNvin, on 29 May 2017 - 02:37 AM, said:

I am not sure if you will classify mine as cute but...

Spoiler

(:>) (;]) br=


Ohh <3 <3 !! yass your elf is cute !! More plx *^* .. coz one elf is never enough