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The Dps Tier List On Rudnhc (Dn Ver 246) Under Construction


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#21 soulcrush

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 06:58 PM

View PostMuchAshe, on 08 July 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

I also "don't mess around in raids" and I disagree with quite a few placements in this ranking.
Now what are we going to do about that?

Input any kind of data here since even though this is discussed thoroughly it still lacks data from every player who does not mess around in raids. Thus one must not be bitter and just put your own data here if you disagree.

For example, 5 different players with the same class of nearly the same equipment vs 5 different players with the same different from the other class also with nearly the same equipment to share their dps meter in idn/rudn.
In order discuss between the data of these two classes with less complications, one must also share the their full stat and clear time of the class since the impact of time changes the dps alot.

Edit: Raid lineup must also be added to the data for buff inputs

I'm looking forward to this thread if there's no pointless negativity.

Edited by soulcrush, 08 July 2017 - 07:14 PM.


#22 FirePhoenix

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:11 PM

View Postshynnblue, on 08 July 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

I think other than the dps capability of a class, it is also useful to talk about what kind of debuff against the boss each class can provide for the party, for.e.g other than being one hell of an easy dps, adept can also give elemental debuff to bosses with their magma punch. such things should be considered too, between 2 rank S classes, one has a debuff one doesn't, i'll definitely choose the one which has.
Ele debuff and general debuff no longer stack. And (almost) all classes have debuff, so manga punch is nothing special here.
The only exception is SE curse x3 which allow further reduce ele resist 15% lower on top of normal -20% ele resist which provide by many class (such as manga punch). That why many pt love SE even though her dps is not that high.

#23 shynnblue

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:14 PM

View PostFirePhoenix, on 08 July 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

Ele debuff and general debuff no longer stack. And (almost) all classes have debuff, so manga punch is nothing special here.
The only exception is SE curse x3 which allow further reduce ele resist 15% lower on top of normal -20% ele resist which provide by many class (such as manga punch). That why many pt love SE even though her dps is not that high.

yes, most debuffs do not stack, magma punch is an example. since this dps guide is already so lengthy i thought it would make sense to just conveniently include all the debuffs each class can offer since it concerns dps too.

#24 MuchAshe

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:17 PM

View Postsoulcrush, on 08 July 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

Input any kind of data here since even though this is discussed thoroughly it still lacks data from every player who does not mess around in raids. Thus one must not be bitter and just put your own data here if you disagree.

For example, 5 different players with the same class of nearly the same equipment vs 5 different players with the same different from the other class also with nearly the same equipment to share their dps meter in idn/rudn.
In order discuss between the data of these two classes with less complications, one must also share the their full stat and clear time of the class since the impact of time changes the dps alot.

I'm looking forward to this thread if there's no pointless negativity.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that the argument given before is irrelevant, because there is a lot of people who don't mess around in raids and who are going to have slightly varying opinions. I think a lot in this list is fairly accurate, but there are still a few things I'd personally disagree with. Personal experience will make everyone have a slightly different impression, so creating this list is gonna cause some form of negativity for sure.
I also don't really see a reason to do this, but I guess we are all bored with zero content at the current time.

#25 Boxhead

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:23 PM

View PostXenocho, on 08 July 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

FYI this was discussed with a few core raid players and parties whom have vast experience in classes. In addition, others are free to share their feedback so yours will be appreciated. Instead of questioning it and stopping there, share constructive feedback so we can improve it.

the constructive feedback here is the data gets so inconsistent due to a ton of factors at hand.

Do they have any form of special buff in place when testing (Dragon's Power after raid, cDN's VIP buff, etc.)?
Was being buff-dependent added to one the factors?
Are they consistently damaging throughout a raid?
How high are their APMs (Actions Per Minute) when raiding?

There are way too many questions to be asked, and a lot of them can be answered by skill alone. Every person's APM varies, every person's way of initiating combos vary, and not everyone has the same amount of knowledge. It's just way too subjective.

Also the bandwagoning. Remember that this is a game. It's meant to have fun. This whole bandwagon thing only creates a sense of alienation to those who enjoy their respective classes and get called inferior or weak for not being in the meta.

#26 atom100

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:35 PM

View PostFirePhoenix, on 08 July 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:


Ele debuff and general debuff no longer stack. And (almost) all classes have debuff, so manga punch is nothing special here.
The only exception is SE curse x3 which allow further reduce ele resist 15% lower on top of normal -20% ele resist which provide by many class (such as manga punch). That why many pt love SE even though her dps is not that high.
you mean to say adept's or elestra's freeze don't stack to elemental debuff anymore?

#27 soulcrush

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:39 PM

View PostMuchAshe, on 08 July 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that the argument given before is irrelevant, because there is a lot of people who don't mess around in raids and who are going to have slightly varying opinions. I think a lot in this list is fairly accurate, but there are still a few things I'd personally disagree with. Personal experience will make everyone have a slightly different impression, so creating this list is gonna cause some form of negativity for sure.

That's the problem doing research in this kind of game. Either the community will help and share their own data of their class willingly but of course with full details that is needed for it to be a viable data or rather rant pointlessly without even sharing anything. And if it gets out of hand then the thread gets locked

View PostMuchAshe, on 08 July 2017 - 07:17 PM, said:

I guess we are all bored with zero content at the current time.

We're back to 3 months gap again, blame CC. (:D)

Edited by soulcrush, 08 July 2017 - 07:44 PM.


#28 Nvin

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:42 PM

View Postatom100, on 08 July 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

you mean to say adept's or elestra's freeze don't stack to elemental debuff anymore?

Debuff Stacking has been fixed since November 2016 Patch.

All Debuffs with similar effect will only reset and won't stack anymore.

#29 FirePhoenix

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:46 PM

View Postatom100, on 08 July 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

you mean to say adept's or elestra's freeze don't stack to elemental debuff anymore?
What I mean don't stack is debuff of the same type. Freeze is another kind of debuff, it still apply.

#30 sngweiwei

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:52 PM

View PostMuchAshe, on 08 July 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

I also "don't mess around in raids" and I disagree with quite a few placements in this ranking.
Now what are we going to do about that?

Then just state why you disagree if you're also one of those guys. Its a discussion forum after all.

Would you rather trust a list from someone who does not mess around in raids and plays this game hardcore, or some random pleb who does not do raids.

More input would be great for this thread. I like the class difficulty thingy.

Edited by sngweiwei, 08 July 2017 - 08:01 PM.


#31 atom100

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:53 PM

View PostFirePhoenix, on 08 July 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:


What I mean don't stack is debuff of the same type. Freeze is another kind of debuff, it still apply.
i almost have to test it out because of Nvin answer, the way i remember it my elestra has higher damage with phoenix and frozen orb combo than phoenix alone.

#32 Jojizone

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:54 PM

Moonlord one of the top DPS!! Yey!!!

#33 MuchAshe

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 07:56 PM

View Postatom100, on 08 July 2017 - 07:53 PM, said:

i almost have to test it out because of Nvin answer, the way i remember it my elestra has higher damage with phoenix and frozen orb combo than phoenix alone.

Yes, ice stack is an additional debuff. That's what he just told you.

#34 PencilNote

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:01 PM

You guys are being ridiculous. This thread is a collaboration of information from different players, so look at it as a reference rather than an absolute declaration (Albeit, a couple of numerical evidences would be nice to back up your claims).

The only people who'd take this seriously to heart are sheep's. I'm sure you guys are better than that.

Edited by PencilNote, 08 July 2017 - 08:02 PM.


#35 Boxhead

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:02 PM

View Postsngweiwei, on 08 July 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

Then just state why you disagree if you're also one of those guys. Its a discussion forum after all.

Would you rather trust a list from someone who does not mess around in raids and plays this game hardcore, or some random pleb who does not do raids.

I just... did?

Also, neither. The endgame is that this builds up more bandwagoning and a false sense of caste system that encourages discrimination among the community. Add up the fact that another server merge is coming.

tbh I'd rather have this as a semi-private list that can only be viewed by experienced players. Rather let others find what they really want instead of being pressured into the meta by discrimination from pubs.

#36 ChellyChi

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:04 PM

View PostBoxhead, on 08 July 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

the constructive feedback here is the data gets so inconsistent due to a ton of factors at hand.

Do they have any form of special buff in place when testing (Dragon's Power after raid, cDN's VIP buff, etc.)?
Was being buff-dependent added to one the factors?
Are they consistently damaging throughout a raid?
How high are their APMs (Actions Per Minute) when raiding?

There are way too many questions to be asked, and a lot of them can be answered by skill alone. Every person's APM varies, every person's way of initiating combos vary, and not everyone has the same amount of knowledge. It's just way too subjective.

Also the bandwagoning. Remember that this is a game. It's meant to have fun. This whole bandwagon thing only creates a sense of alienation to those who enjoy their respective classes and get called inferior or weak for not being in the meta.
Yes you can be rest assured that the players that has been testing out have full knowledge on their classes itself.
this list is not a 100% foolproof list, but however BASED on over 100 runs and testing from class to class , and im sure many parties that do RUDN raid would more or less feel the same way too.
Btw, i just want to add in that this list is in regard in RUDN , only not IDN.
after considering factors from RUDN, and boss pattern we came up with this list.

#37 MuchAshe

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:09 PM

View PostBoxhead, on 08 July 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

I just... did?

He was addressing me.

View Postsngweiwei, on 08 July 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

Then just state why you disagree if you're also one of those guys. Its a discussion forum after all.

Would you rather trust a list from someone who does not mess around in raids and plays this game hardcore, or some random pleb who does not do raids.

More input would be great for this thread. I like the class difficulty thingy.

Alright then, please remember this is my personal opinion:

Swordmasters are both equally strong, DA is stronger.
Hellfire Seleana and Mara should be above the others in Rank S, probably have their own tier.
Artillery should be lower, the only strong point she has was dmg xfer, this was fixed in EU, not sure about other servers.
Crusader should be higher if we are talking about endgame gear, as his scaling is absolutely insane.
Silver Hunter should be higher.
Gear Master should get into it's own tier of absolute fishing garbage.
Physician should be higher, can definitely compete with a lot of DPS classes easily.
Light Fury should atleast be higher than fishing Gear Master and Sting Breezer.
Barb is better than Ruina, Ruina is just too hard to judge and noone plays it.
Arch Heretic should be a little higher, not sure how high tho.
Sniper should be higher, even if it's just a bit.

Also there should probably be a healer tier, cause if party sucks ass, then Saint, LF and Phys aren't gonna be able to unleash their full DPS potential.

#38 Casanova

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:11 PM

Is the tier list based on the maximum attainable potential of each individual class? Eg. Max FD/BiS cash items

#39 sngweiwei

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:14 PM

View PostBoxhead, on 08 July 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

I just... did?

Also, neither. The endgame is that this builds up more bandwagoning and a false sense of caste system that encourages discrimination among the community. Add up the fact that another server merge is coming.

tbh I'd rather have this as a semi-private list that can only be viewed by experienced players. Rather let others find what they really want instead of being pressured into the meta by discrimination from pubs.

I was answering someone else. He asked me what to do when he disagrees with OP.

Eh, the discrimination is already rampant in HW/SW. Not like things are only gonna any better. Might as well roll with it. Thats why I got 5 different warriors, so I'm safe from any crazy nerfs and potential anti-class bias . ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


And what's your definition of an experienced DN player?

Edited by sngweiwei, 08 July 2017 - 08:23 PM.


#40 Boxhead

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:16 PM

View PostChellyChi, on 08 July 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Yes you can be rest assured that the players that has been testing out have full knowledge on their classes itself.
this list is not a 100% foolproof list, but however BASED on over 100 runs and testing from class to class , and im sure many parties that do RUDN raid would more or less feel the same way too.
Btw, i just want to add in that this list is in regard in RUDN , only not IDN.
after considering factors from RUDN, and boss pattern we came up with this list.

Spoiler